archie
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Post by archie on Sept 18, 2018 8:20:52 GMT
What I believe Elliot is referring to is the old terms, which had a vague and unquantified statement along the lines of "lenders will be kept up to date on the state of loans" Which was the reason for some debate about what exactly that should mean. Views differed, about what that should mean. Moneything clearly took this and created a more robust implementation, probably also to help comply with FCA rules etc. As we now see communication appears to be much more reasonable in regards loans that are late paying etc. What we do not know specifically is do they give any grace at all, or are they literally sticking to the absolute letter in regards notification of when interest is late. We will all have our suspicions, I lean towards the latter now. Certainly you can see people who panic and try to sell loans the moment a loan changes to non-performing, as we saw yesterday with the commercial property, 5% was up for sale within minutes of that "announcement" From T&Cs :- I picked up a little of the panic sales yesterday.
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johni
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Post by johni on Sept 18, 2018 8:23:18 GMT
I’m sure it wouldn’t meet the regulatory threshold (there to prevent the frivolous) but I certainly incurred losses on this loan because the platform broke their then T&Cs by not keeping lenders up to date with progress on claiming late payments. I wasn’t even aware the borrower had never made a single payment as I continued to make purchases in a non-performing loan. That was MT’s choice not to inform their lenders. Weren't the terms and conditions regarding non-performing loans added after this loan went under? As far as I can see any
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archie
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Post by archie on Sept 18, 2018 8:34:35 GMT
Weren't the terms and conditions regarding non-performing loans added after this loan went under? As far as I can see any claim will fail. Your guess is totally wrong I am invested here and have been in other defaulted loans. The difference is I wait for the full facts which we have clearly been told will be released when the administrators have completed their work. We have not lost any money on this loan as yet and we do not know how Moneything will deal with the issues raised in this thread which there are several. But going out of your way to continually try to damage the reputation of any company without waiting to find out the facts ie in this case if a loss has occurred after recovery. What actions are taken regarding the difference in valuation in freehold and leasehold. Whos error was it the valuers solicitors or Moneythings. If these issues are not dealt with then I will be following this up. But I will collect all the facts to be able to asses the actions necessary. What? I don't believe MT did anything wrong here. The freehold/leasehold confusion was a genuine error as the property had been freehold but converted to leasehold. I'm in this loan too.
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sqh
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Post by sqh on Sept 18, 2018 9:28:01 GMT
Your guess is totally wrong I am invested here and have been in other defaulted loans. The difference is I wait for the full facts which we have clearly been told will be released when the administrators have completed their work. We have not lost any money on this loan as yet and we do not know how Moneything will deal with the issues raised in this thread which there are several. But going out of your way to continually try to damage the reputation of any company without waiting to find out the facts ie in this case if a loss has occurred after recovery. What actions are taken regarding the difference in valuation in freehold and leasehold. Whos error was it the valuers solicitors or Moneythings. If these issues are not dealt with then I will be following this up. But I will collect all the facts to be able to asses the actions necessary. What? I don't believe MT did anything wrong here. The freehold/leasehold confusion was a genuine error as the property had been freehold but converted to leasehold. I'm in this loan too. The purpose of the loan was to demolish the existing building and redevelop the site. Surely, it is a monumental error to allow loan drawdown without the permission of the freeholder. This is the sort of check the legal team are responsible for.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 18, 2018 9:54:29 GMT
What? I don't believe MT did anything wrong here. The freehold/leasehold confusion was a genuine error as the property had been freehold but converted to leasehold. I'm in this loan too. The purpose of the loan was to demolish the existing building and redevelop the site. Surely, it is a monumental error to allow loan drawdown without the permission of the freeholder. This is the sort of check the legal team are responsible for. No, it wasn't. The purpose of the loan was aquire the site & to achieve full planning. No demolition was to occur during the term. Further funds would be advanced to fund construction once planning was achieved but that would have been a renewal giving lenders chance to exit (old structure) There is no mention of the tenure in the proposal that error is in the valuation but also no indication that it altered the valuation anyway.
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Sept 18, 2018 10:41:07 GMT
Your guess is totally wrong I am invested here and have been in other defaulted loans. The difference is I wait for the full facts which we have clearly been told will be released when the administrators have completed their work. We have not lost any money on this loan as yet and we do not know how Moneything will deal with the issues raised in this thread which there are several. But going out of your way to continually try to damage the reputation of any company without waiting to find out the facts ie in this case if a loss has occurred after recovery. What actions are taken regarding the difference in valuation in freehold and leasehold. Whos error was it the valuers solicitors or Moneythings. If these issues are not dealt with then I will be following this up. But I will collect all the facts to be able to asses the actions necessary. What? I don't believe MT did anything wrong here. The freehold/leasehold confusion was a genuine error as the property had been freehold but converted to leasehold. I'm in this loan too. From context, I suspect johni has quoted the wrong post, and intended to respond to the one below yours.
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johni
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Post by johni on Sept 18, 2018 10:50:11 GMT
As you have made the same threats several times we are aware. We are also aware that MoneyThing have clearly stated that there will not be a debrief on all events until after the administrators have completed their business johni: Be quite clear- these are not threats, they are statements of intent (P.S. I'm guessing you're not invested here - just throwing in the odd comment to pass the time?). Your guess is totally wrong I am invested here and have been in other defaulted loans. The difference is I wait for the full facts which we have clearly been told will be released when the administrators have completed their work. We have not lost any money on this loan as yet and we do not know how Moneything will deal with the issues raised in this thread which there are several. But going out of your way to continually try to damage the reputation of any company without waiting to find out the facts ie in this case if a loss has occurred after recovery. What actions are taken regarding the difference in valuation in freehold and leasehold. Whos error was it the valuers solicitors or Moneythings. If these issues are not dealt with then I will be following this up. But I will collect all the facts to be able to asses the actions necessary.
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johni
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Post by johni on Sept 18, 2018 10:53:48 GMT
What? I don't believe MT did anything wrong here. The freehold/leasehold confusion was a genuine error as the property had been freehold but converted to leasehold. I'm in this loan too. From context, I suspect johni has quoted the wrong post, and intended to respond to the one below yours.Yes sorry about that
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 18, 2018 10:59:30 GMT
No, it wasn't. The purpose of the loan was aquire the site & to achieve full planning. No demolition was to occur during the term. Further funds would be advanced to fund construction once planning was achieved but that would have been a renewal giving lenders chance to exit (old structure) There is no mention of the tenure in the proposal that error is in the valuation but also no indication that it altered the valuation anyway. 'There is no mention of the tenure in the proposal that error is in the valuation but also no indication that it altered the valuation anyway.'
I think the clearest indication possible is shown when looking at the valuation on which the LTV was based - and what the property actually sold for (hopefully that is - exchange is not yet complete until full payment - due 19 October).
No, that's not evidence of the relevance of the tenure. That's just evidence that a distressed sale value isnt related to a normal, even quick, sale valuation. Plenty of examples of where valuations haven't held up in distressed sale situations without tenure questions. You need firm evidence that the LH value differs substantially from the FH and a distressed sale isn't it. Once the sale has completed I'm sure MT will review all aspects, if they haven't already, and decide whether they can pursue any other parties.
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Sept 18, 2018 11:39:25 GMT
'There is no mention of the tenure in the proposal that error is in the valuation but also no indication that it altered the valuation anyway.'
I think the clearest indication possible is shown when looking at the valuation on which the LTV was based - and what the property actually sold for (hopefully that is - exchange is not yet complete until full payment - due 19 October).
No, that's not evidence of the relevance of the tenure. That's just evidence that a distressed sale value isnt related to a normal, even quick, sale valuation. Plenty of examples of where valuations haven't held up in distressed sale situations without tenure questions. You need firm evidence that the LH value differs substantially from the FH and a distressed sale isn't it. Once the sale has completed I'm sure MT will review all aspects, if they haven't already, and decide whether they can pursue any other parties. Are you seriously suggesting that any property will have the same valuation whether it be leasehold or freehold? If so, you better tell Government who are currently beating the building industry with a big stick for selling houses with leasehold tenure and proposing to ban them totally on new builds - why do that if it's not an issue?
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 18, 2018 12:04:51 GMT
No, that's not evidence of the relevance of the tenure. That's just evidence that a distressed sale value isnt related to a normal, even quick, sale valuation. Plenty of examples of where valuations haven't held up in distressed sale situations without tenure questions. You need firm evidence that the LH value differs substantially from the FH and a distressed sale isn't it. Once the sale has completed I'm sure MT will review all aspects, if they haven't already, and decide whether they can pursue any other parties. Are you seriously suggesting that any property will have the same valuation whether it be leasehold or freehold? If so, you better tell Government who are currently beating the building industry with a big stick for selling houses with leasehold tenure and proposing to ban them totally on new builds - why do that if it's not an issue? Depends on the terms of the leasehold. The issue the government is tackling relates to modern leaseholds where the terms allow for disproportionate & arbitary uplifts in ground rent & extortionate buyout clauses. This gives the freehold a significant value. If this isn't the case then ISTM the freehold value is very minimal over & above the leasehold as it's merely a peppercorn rent. (Note different to the premises lease value)
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rxdav
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Post by rxdav on Sept 18, 2018 12:15:42 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting that any property will have the same valuation whether it be leasehold or freehold? If so, you better tell Government who are currently beating the building industry with a big stick for selling houses with leasehold tenure and proposing to ban them totally on new builds - why do that if it's not an issue? Depends on the terms of the leasehold. The issue the government is tackling relates to modern leaseholds where the terms allow for disproportionate & arbitary uplifts in ground rent & extortionate buyout clauses. This gives the freehold a significant value. If this isn't the case then ISTM the freehold value is very minimal over & above the leasehold as it's merely a peppercorn rent. (Note different to the premises lease value) Well I have actively avoided any leasehold property all my life - as did my father before me - and we were not alone. Whether the value attributed to a freehold property above a leasehold property is large or small may depend on the terms of the lease (and critically it's remaining duration) - but there will always be a difference. There has been, and still is a very real perception that freehold will always trump leasehold - and that manifests itself in leasehold being valued at a discount to freehold. That has been the case for a very long time and you will not convince me (or a large part of the population I suggest) otherwise - but I'm sure MT will be interested in your musings!?
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archie
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Post by archie on Sept 18, 2018 12:21:41 GMT
The update on the 28/02/18 covers the value difference between freehold/leasehold on this property.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Sept 18, 2018 12:29:54 GMT
The update on the 28/02/18 covers the value difference between freehold/leasehold on this property. Ha, I'd forgotten about that. Wonder who prompted that update 😉 Suffice to say my musings weren't just random thoughts. So less than 2.5% variance in value at best
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Post by dan1 on Sept 18, 2018 12:46:54 GMT
The update on the 28/02/18 covers the value difference between freehold/leasehold on this property. Ha, I'd forgotten about that. Wonder who prompted that update 😉 Suffice to say my musings weren't just random thoughts. So less than 2.5% variance in value at best But more like double that variance in sale price, distressed or not. I'm not sure I give much weight to a VR that contains such a howler (I can hear ozboy )
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