happy
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Post by happy on Jun 6, 2018 10:50:45 GMT
The poin is that the terms have been applied retrospectively. Originally they stated that this would apply after June 6th. Loans made prior to that were made under the old T&C. I just think it's a dirty trick. Have I missed something? All my Rolling loans made up to Monday 4 June are still showing a "Due date" as under the previous terms. Those lent on Monday show due dates of 2 and 3 July. I assume my capital and interest will be released to my Holding account on those dates as under the terms current on the dates lent. Is there a reason to think that won't happen? Based on what happened to my repayments today then no, they won't be repaid to holding. I had all my repayment settings set to holding and most of my £3k rolling repayment went straight back into rolling at market rate of 3% in the early hours today. The remaining £80 or so didn't get matched as it seems there was more money than loans today.
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happy
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Post by happy on Jun 6, 2018 10:07:27 GMT
Apologies if I've missed your point, but can't you just cancel your rolling market investment fee-free? The poin is that the terms have been applied retrospectively. Originally they stated that this would apply after June 6th. Loans made prior to that were made under the old T&C. I just think it's a dirty trick. Exactly, likewise forcing me to take automatic reinvestment of my 3 year interest and capital repayments into the rolling market is also a dirty trick. Where does it say I have the right to withdraw all my 3 year investments free of charge due to a fundamental change in the conditions I made the investment under and why can I not have them return to my holding account as they always did until today. This is totally wrong RS...
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happy
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Post by happy on Jun 6, 2018 6:28:14 GMT
So the £3,000 rolling repayment that I was expecting today from Rolling has been automatically reinvested at todays market rate of 3%. So all money currently in Rolling is captured in the new "Fairer" system not just money we invest from today. Thanks for making that clear to everyone RS.
What really gets me mad about this latest move by RS, apart from them dressing things up to make it look like they are doing all this for our benefit, is that I now have no choice over the capital and interest repayments coming from my old 3 year loans, they have to go to rolling and to get them back I would force an investment pause in Rolling and therefore suspend my free choice to set my own rate on this and any other money I would like some control over.
Why? I never signed up for that RS. Do you even care what I think? Almost certainly NO....
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happy
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Post by happy on Jun 5, 2018 14:35:14 GMT
I ended up contacting AC CS on live chat, they know there is an issue for some investors and it is being looked at. They sent me my tax details via email within the hour.
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happy
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Post by happy on Jun 2, 2018 21:59:31 GMT
RateSetter's original blog post said "As capital and interest is repaid by borrowers, it is returned to investors in monthly instalments for the duration of the investment. These repayments will be automatically reinvested back into the Rolling Market at the prevailing Market Rate." This wording suggests that the underlying loans are fully amortising, but it's certainly open to interpretation.
Likewise, I've turned off Rolling Market reinvestment until the effects of these changes on the Market Rate become clearer.
Sorry, yes you are correct, the loans are amortising, well mostly they are but remember that development loans won't be and some other business loans may not be so you may hold the full capital amount for the term (probably not 5 years for the development loans though)
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happy
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Post by happy on Jun 2, 2018 20:46:16 GMT
According to the revised terms published yesterday:
So it seems that there won't be an option to have Rolling Market capital repayments sent to the Holding Account. They'll be re-invested in perpetuity at Market Rate, unless a withdrawal request is made (which would then trigger the 14-day 'fair usage' clause).
I'm presuming - perhaps incorrectly - that Rolling Market interest payments sent to the Holding Account first are deemed to be 'new funds' i.e. they can then be lent via the Rolling Market at a user-set rate.
I understood that they would not invested in perpetuity but until the underlying loan contract matures, and then you get your capital back. So anything up to 5 years (or so!). This is why RS have made this change to the market as it solves their maturity transformation risk as you can only get before term now by selling and you can only sell if someone else buys your contract. Before they gave you your money back every month and then hoped most would flow back into the rolling market each day to maintain liquidity. Regarding your last question, I'm assumed so as well but as it does not specifically state what happens to interest returned to holding we may have to wait and see. I have stopped all automatic reinvestment into rolling and will see what the market does come the 6th. I may put some money back in at 5% and above and see it I can get it taken up if the market becomes unstable as I think >=5% with theoretically instant access is not a bad place for some short-term money.
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happy
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Post by happy on Jun 2, 2018 20:07:40 GMT
Sorry I didn't know about the new forum, I thought he was referring to the new forum that was started a while ago. So basically someone got banned and tried to set up for themselves, shame that info will be split but good luck to them trying to moderate all the banned members. No problem toffeeboy. I did not want to link to it because it should not be necessary to have it. I agree entirely about the rules and the need to follow them. I do occasionally suggest that posters modify things. But there is also a need to administer the rules fairly, and to develop them with consent. There needs to be a period of pause and calm reflection, during which the staff might develop procedures to handle a future crisis. The aim should be to rehabilitate those who have not broken the rules as written, and those who will abide by them in future, and to re-unify the forums before the split becomes fixed.
I too missed this 'event', all went on while I was sitting on a warm beach in the Med and just found his thread today, very sad and ultimately to nobody's benefit I'm sure. I didn't really believe Brexit and then even harder was Trump but I eventually got my head around both those situations. However I am not sure I will ever believe #oldgrumpy-banned..... Totally unbelievable however it happened.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 31, 2018 17:21:01 GMT
I have tried on and off over a number of weeks to get my 2017-18 tax statement produced and every time I do it I get the "Ooops! Unfortunately the servers must be extremely busy for you to see this timeout message." message.
Has anyone actually been able to get a tax statement produced from AC recently? I have to say I am getting a bit fed up of trying.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 23, 2018 15:19:35 GMT
The ability to withdraw instantly for the QAA or in 30 days for the 30 Day account is based on the cash buffer held as part of these accounts. It has nothing to do with the Provision Fund. The PF will only be used in the event of a defaulting loan not recovering 100% of the capital value of the loan from the secured assets. If the access accounts cash buffer was ever exhausted then withdrawal of funds depends on the ability to sell loan holdings to release the funds required. Hope this helps. Wrong. Cash buffer concerns liquidity only. PF is to enable us to trade defaulted loans. My question is related to defaulted loans. Nothing to do with cash buffer (other than the fact cash buffer also needs to be intact to withdraw). So my question stands but I am not expecting an answer. I guess it is what some would call a rhetorical question. No I'm not wrong and thank you for your polite reply. When you withdraw from the QAA you take money from the cash buffer, theoretically instantly. If the cash buffer is empty the QAA sells loans, if it can, on your behalf to provide you with funds. If there are only defaulted loans left in the QAA then you will have to wait until recovery competed and assets are sold and only then will the PF be involved and then only if there is a capital loss. So in all but the most extreme of situation the PF has nothing to do with with selling out of the access accounts, if you sold everything today you would get all your money back instantly (or in 30 Days) regardless of any defaulted loans you hold and without any recourse to the PF. Edit: crossed with paul123 and also the PF has nothing to do with trading loans it is there to cover capital loss after recovery of assets.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 23, 2018 14:24:42 GMT
sapphire - anything like that where it isn't a technical question could I kindly directly you to the lender desk please. There will be, or will need to be, official answers to these questions that are given out consistently and with sign off from our compliance team. Never knew the PF figures were shown on your site, maybe it is recent. So there is £2m PF covering the access accounts. The largest loan exposure is ~ £7m. What would happen if that loan defaulted/credit event? Would we still be able to withdraw all? The ability to withdraw instantly for the QAA or in 30 days for the 30 Day account is based on the cash buffer held as part of these accounts. It has nothing to do with the Provision Fund. The PF will only be used in the event of a defaulting loan not recovering 100% of the capital value of the loan from the secured assets. If the access accounts cash buffer was ever exhausted then withdrawal of funds depends on the ability to sell loan holdings to release the funds required. Hope this helps.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 20, 2018 20:26:43 GMT
OK. Not good news for the GBBA 1 or 2 holders, then. I’ll stick to instant and 30 day and MLA, thanks. A PF that operates like that needs very good diversification. To be honest with the recent increases in the access account rates together with the better diversification and the liquidity buffer they look the best overall risk/return bet of the automated accounts. Having said that I believe the GBBA2 diversification will improve significantly as it grows and matures to hold more and more loans. Current maximum single loan holding is below 7% with the next highest at 3.75% which is a coutry mile better than we were seeing only a few months ago and probably acceptable for smaller holding (sub £10k or so). I'm keeping a watching brief before I invest any more and I'm keeping all my other non-MLA holdings in the access accounts.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 20, 2018 18:15:22 GMT
Capital loss, or capital plus interest. A two year recovery process is not unusual, so does the PF cover any capital AND interest. Capital loss only is what I understand according to the AC PF FAQs
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happy
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Post by happy on May 20, 2018 17:20:00 GMT
- Or even smoke and mirrors! Damn those spell checkers!
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happy
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Post by happy on May 19, 2018 20:34:58 GMT
No, it doesn’t help. Still need clarity on PF rules. It remains weird, and differs between accounts.... OK, sorry that was not helpful, how about this. The PF rules as I understand them, as based on info provided by AC. ALL PFs are the same, the difference in behaviour of the access accounts is down to the liquidity buffer. The PF will pay out for missing interest in a loan that is not in default but interest payments have been missed. Once a loan is in default then interest payments will stop. The PF may pay out for capital loss after all asset recovery has been completed/exhausted which is subject to it's legal requirement to be discretionary, i.e. there is no guarantee that it will pay out. This is no different to any other payment as a result of an event (such as death of a person in receipt of a company pension) which in that case may yield a discretionary lump sum payment to the persons estate, but it is not guaranteed otherwise it becomes a life assurance product which an occupational pensions provider is unlikely to be licenced to provide. Likewise if AC or any other P2P platform guarantee to pay out in the event of capital loss then they are providing loss insurance and they would need to be regulated for that. An example of this is where Lending Works provide insurance against certain events such as redundancy, death etc but this is a product purchased fro a 3rd party insurance provider not provided directly by Lending Works. For AC to guarantee the same for loan default they would similarly need to insure every loan and that would be at our cost ultimately via lower rates. As I see it there are no cloak and mirrors here.
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happy
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Post by happy on May 19, 2018 15:40:33 GMT
But as I understand it the PF will pay you once the recovery process completes - if there is a shortfall. At least I think that is how the AC PF works, but....... Given that they currently have two different types of provision and only one term, it might be helpful if Assetz rebadged the GBBA/GEA/PSA provision fund to lessen confusion. The QAA operates with a genuine provision fund. Even if my money is nominally allocated to duff loans, if I want my money back (normal conditions etc etc), then the provision fund wand is waved and hey presto. The GBBA/GEA fund sounds more like insurance to me i.e. we'll see how it all works out in the long long run, and if you actually end up losing money then we'll reimburse you. Hopefully unlike insurance they won't end up reimbursing people with Argos vouchers. My view on how AC Provision Funds work is somewhat different to yours. My understanding is that all of ACs automated accounts have the same underlying Provision fund(PF) structure, this being one that protects the investor against capital loss after all recoveries via sale of secured assets, exercising PGs, debentues etc have concluded. No AC PF provides any protection against a default event by "taking ownership" of the loan in the way the old Zopa Classic and Access accounts did and also how the RS PF behaves for non-property loans. Therefore any investor involved in a defaulted loan in any AC PF protected account will be required to wait until the recovery process is concluded before the PF potentially pays out for that loan. The above applies to all AC automated accounts including the QAA and 30 Day accounts, aka "Access Accounts". Where the Access Accounts differ is that they operate with a cash reserve or liquidity buffer to provide the expected speed of access these account are designed to deliver ( normal market coditions caveat applies). Any investor in the Access Accounts will have an equal share of all loans held by these accounts, including any defaulted loans. When you sell out you effectively take money from the buffer and give an pro-rata share of every loan you hold to all the other investors based on the value of their investment, again including any defaulted loans. But importantly you can only do this because of the cash buffer not because of the provision fund. Bottom line is this: if the cash buffer was exhausted and even if the PF is fully funded you would not be able to exit any loans, defaulted or not, unless someone else was investing new money into the access accounts to effectively buy up your loan holdings. So it is the liquidity buffer that gives the impression of being protected against these defaulted loans by the PF, in reality the PF is not involved at all. Hope this helps.
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