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Post by MoneyThing on Dec 8, 2017 11:32:02 GMT
Morning All, Thank you to all those that have emailed following this thread to notify us that they are not receiving some/all of our emails. We have recently moved to a new provider to handle our email campaigns. It seems that the new system is incorrectly flagging some of the users as 'Unengaged' (after a period of time where it believes the emails are being unopened as well as other scoring methods), and therefore omits these users on subsequent emails. Whilst we investigate the issue, I would be most grateful if lenders on here who have previously received emails from us successfully (new loans, repayment notices, bank issues, etc. type emails rather than platform generated ones which confirm deposit/withdrawal requests), could email us to let us know which of the following recent emails were not received: Dec 7th - Luton Repayment Dec 6th - Change of Bank Details Dec 6th - New Car Loan Live on Friday Dec 6th - Loans Renewing This Week Dec 2nd - Pipeline Nov 30th - CSP Loan Renewals This would really help us to work with the new provider to resolve it. Kind regards, Ed Would you like that feedback given here, or to a support email address? Also, are the new campaign handlers using a specific 'From:' address we should be looking out for? (To see if it's been filtered into spam rather than not sent / not received.) Please email us at support@. (The From address has remained the same throughout, being support@moneything.com ) Regards, Ed
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mickj
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Post by mickj on Dec 8, 2017 13:37:09 GMT
Seems I'm with archie, no email regarding Luton yesterday - and not in spam or anywhere. (gmail) Are your last four emails the same as mine? Yes, last was 2nd Dec Pipeline. Edit 4pm 8/12/17 seems back in the loop, Pipeline email received.
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toast
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Post by toast on Dec 8, 2017 15:58:14 GMT
Aha! Just got a "MoneyThing - PIPELINE" email - first email since the pipeline email of Dec 2nd.
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ali
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Post by ali on Dec 8, 2017 16:02:17 GMT
Aha! Just got a "MoneyThing - PIPELINE" email - first email since the pipeline email of Dec 2nd. Likewise!
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Post by MoneyThing on Dec 8, 2017 16:04:42 GMT
I took the decision to revert back to our previous provider whilst we try and solve the issues with the new provider. As such, the Pipeline email which was sent this afternoon was done through our old provider so everyone should have received it ok. Regards, Ed.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 8, 2017 16:12:01 GMT
You are not alone in having trouble with these bulk-emailers .. both RS and SS (now Ly) stopped emailing me (or rather their supplier did) after a couple of emails bounced (my ISP decided to block them, since they'd been forwarded, so yes, for a few days the email address really was not functional). Getting it turned back on involved persuading the P2P platform to actually go check what their provider was doing ( MoneyThing at least seem to know) and then figuring out what box to tick in which web page screen to turn a particular email address back on. The whole 'nobody read them so lets stop sending them' thing is a step too far, IMO .. just keep sending them, until/unless someone actually complains about it .. the problem seems to be that the bulk emailers are petrified of getting on some spam-blocklist, which would upend their business .. 'failure to deliver' frequently gets by unnoticed.
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Post by MoneyThing on Dec 8, 2017 16:28:18 GMT
You are not alone in having trouble with these bulk-emailers .. both RS and SS (now Ly) stopped emailing me (or rather their supplier did) after a couple of emails bounced (my ISP decided to block them, since they'd been forwarded, so yes, for a few days the email address really was not functional). Getting it turned back on involved persuading the P2P platform to actually go check what their provider was doing ( MoneyThing at least seem to know) and then figuring out what box to tick in which web page screen to turn a particular email address back on. The whole 'nobody read them so lets stop sending them' thing is a step too far, IMO .. just keep sending them, until/unless someone actually complains about it .. the problem seems to be that the bulk emailers are petrified of getting on some spam-blocklist, which would upend their business .. 'failure to deliver' frequently gets by unnoticed. Acknowledged. Having looked at a number of providers, most now have seemed to move into the (if we don't think you have received the last X emails from our system then you will be put into the 'Unengaged' basket and you cannot be emailed again). I understand that most providers are heading this way but having investigated a number of users over the last few days, it is clear that they have been opening emails in the past which the system reports that they hadn't. At the moment, our old provider has not added in this 'feature' as yet and you can just send out emails to all until such time as they unsubscribe, however I understand that they too are also going down this route in due course as it is becoming 'industry best practice'.
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ali
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Post by ali on Dec 8, 2017 16:39:57 GMT
You are not alone in having trouble with these bulk-emailers .. both RS and SS (now Ly) stopped emailing me (or rather their supplier did) after a couple of emails bounced (my ISP decided to block them, since they'd been forwarded, so yes, for a few days the email address really was not functional). Getting it turned back on involved persuading the P2P platform to actually go check what their provider was doing ( MoneyThing at least seem to know) and then figuring out what box to tick in which web page screen to turn a particular email address back on. The whole 'nobody read them so lets stop sending them' thing is a step too far, IMO .. just keep sending them, until/unless someone actually complains about it .. the problem seems to be that the bulk emailers are petrified of getting on some spam-blocklist, which would upend their business .. 'failure to deliver' frequently gets by unnoticed. Acknowledged. Having looked at a number of providers, most now have seemed to move into the (if we don't think you have received the last X emails from our system then you will be put into the 'Unengaged' basket and you cannot be emailed again). I understand that most providers are heading this way but having investigated a number of users over the last few days, it is clear that they have been opening emails in the past which the system reports that they hadn't. At the moment, our old provider has not added in this 'feature' as yet and you can just send out emails to all until such time as they unsubscribe, however I understand that they too are also going down this route in due course as it is becoming 'industry best practice'. That's because email has no standard means to tell if the recipient has opened the email or not. Bulk emailers, like spammers, like to try and find some way of finding out whether that be via headers that it hopes the email client will honour or via web-bugs that spot the email client fetching a particular image to display as part of the message. However, many email clients value their users privacy and take steps to avoid such traps. "Best practice" or not, this is never going to work.
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archie
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Post by archie on Dec 8, 2017 16:42:41 GMT
You are not alone in having trouble with these bulk-emailers .. both RS and SS (now Ly) stopped emailing me (or rather their supplier did) after a couple of emails bounced (my ISP decided to block them, since they'd been forwarded, so yes, for a few days the email address really was not functional). Getting it turned back on involved persuading the P2P platform to actually go check what their provider was doing ( MoneyThing at least seem to know) and then figuring out what box to tick in which web page screen to turn a particular email address back on. The whole 'nobody read them so lets stop sending them' thing is a step too far, IMO .. just keep sending them, until/unless someone actually complains about it .. the problem seems to be that the bulk emailers are petrified of getting on some spam-blocklist, which would upend their business .. 'failure to deliver' frequently gets by unnoticed. Acknowledged. Having looked at a number of providers, most now have seemed to move into the (if we don't think you have received the last X emails from our system then you will be put into the 'Unengaged' basket and you cannot be emailed again). I understand that most providers are heading this way but having investigated a number of users over the last few days, it is clear that they have been opening emails in the past which the system reports that they hadn't. At the moment, our old provider has not added in this 'feature' as yet and you can just send out emails to all until such time as they unsubscribe, however I understand that they too are also going down this route in due course as it is becoming 'industry best practice'. My email address is just a forwarding address. Would that cause the problem? How do they determine whether it's been read?
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Post by MoneyThing on Dec 8, 2017 16:53:12 GMT
Acknowledged. Having looked at a number of providers, most now have seemed to move into the (if we don't think you have received the last X emails from our system then you will be put into the 'Unengaged' basket and you cannot be emailed again). I understand that most providers are heading this way but having investigated a number of users over the last few days, it is clear that they have been opening emails in the past which the system reports that they hadn't. At the moment, our old provider has not added in this 'feature' as yet and you can just send out emails to all until such time as they unsubscribe, however I understand that they too are also going down this route in due course as it is becoming 'industry best practice'. That's because email has no standard means to tell if the recipient has opened the email or not. Bulk emailers, like spammers, like to try and find some way of finding out whether that be via headers that it hopes the email client will honour or via web-bugs that spot the email client fetching a particular image to display as part of the message. However, many email clients value their users privacy and take steps to avoid such traps. "Best practice" or not, this is never going to work. Agreed. Although interestingly the argument from the other side is: "The implications of sending repeated emails to those that are unengaged (i.e. repeatedly not opening emails) is significant. The days of being able to continuously send emails to people who have repeatedly not opened your emails is gone, and not because the email platforms you are sending from want this, but because of the mail servers that receive the emails. Mail servers (yahoo, Gmail, Microsoft etc.) look at email engagement as a way of determining where your emails end up. If you’re sending to someone who has repeatedly not opened your emails, the mail server will treat your emails as irrelevant. This is known as graymail. The first thing that happens is that your emails begin to go into folders like Clutter (Outlook) and Promotions (Gmail), rather than directly into the inbox. The next stage is your emails go into users junk folders as the mail servers begin to class your emails as spam. If this continued emailing of unengaged contacts continues, the big problem is that it then begins to impact your database that is engaged, and starts to treat emails sent to them in a similar fashion. Therefore, even your engaged contacts begin to see emails end up in their junk folder, or don’t get them at all. This is ultimately why the engagement tool is so important as it prevents you from damaging your own database, sender reputation & domain."Seems to me to be a bit of a stalemate position.
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Post by MoneyThing on Dec 8, 2017 16:53:55 GMT
Acknowledged. Having looked at a number of providers, most now have seemed to move into the (if we don't think you have received the last X emails from our system then you will be put into the 'Unengaged' basket and you cannot be emailed again). I understand that most providers are heading this way but having investigated a number of users over the last few days, it is clear that they have been opening emails in the past which the system reports that they hadn't. At the moment, our old provider has not added in this 'feature' as yet and you can just send out emails to all until such time as they unsubscribe, however I understand that they too are also going down this route in due course as it is becoming 'industry best practice'. My email address is just a forwarding address. Would that cause the problem? How do they determine whether it's been read? Perhaps. I will ask the question. Thanks.
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ali
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Post by ali on Dec 8, 2017 17:01:02 GMT
Seems to me to be a bit of a stalemate position. Seems the me the "correct" answer is that if the bulk emailer determines that the recipient might be unengaged, they should send a final message telling the recipient this and explaining that no more email will be sent unless the user clicks on a provided link to assert that they wish to continue to receive email from this source even if the bulk emailer can't see that the messages have been read. If the recipient truely is unengaged, they won't see the email and won't click the link.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 8, 2017 17:36:01 GMT
That might work, but the correct answer, IMO, is for folks to not use those kind of bulk emailers. The problem is that they are sending stuff out for 1001 different companies, and google treats them (all) based on the aggregate I believe. Yeah, I want to be totally disengaged from sundry marketing campaigns, but I want the damn emails from my bank, P2P company, and credit card supplier to arrive regardless of how 'disengaged' I (or others) appear to be with the general stream of junk from that particular IP address. If it shows up as 'graymail', at least it DOES show up .. silently dropping it is deeply uncool.
Send your own email, yea even marketing stuff (managing a circulation list is not rocket science). And if someone DOES drop offline for a couple of weeks, how about a periodic prod once a month or something to see if BT have mended their phone line yet (that happens too!) .. or write to their postal address (which is what my BSoc eventually managed to do .. although getting emails turned back on was still non-trivial).
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ali
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Post by ali on Dec 8, 2017 17:43:58 GMT
That might work, but the correct answer, IMO, is for folks to not use those kind of bulk emailers. The problem is that they are sending stuff out for 1001 different companies, and google treats them (all) based on the aggregate I believe. Yeah, I want to be totally disengaged from sundry marketing campaigns, but I want the damn emails from my bank, P2P company, and credit card supplier to arrive regardless of how 'disengaged' I (or others) appear to be with the general stream of junk from that particular IP address. If it shows up as 'graymail', at least it DOES show up .. silently dropping it is deeply uncool. Send your own email, yea even marketing stuff (managing a circulation list is not rocket science). And if someone DOES drop offline for a couple of weeks, how about a periodic prod once a month or something to see if BT have mended their phone line yet (that happens too!) .. or write to their postal address (which is what my BSoc eventually managed to do .. although getting emails turned back on was still non-trivial). I hear what you're saying, but running a bulk emailer isn't a trivial task. Sure, MT and others could install a copy of GNU Mailman and configure it easily enough, but that's only the very beginning of doing it properly in a business critical environment. I've run a number of mailing lists myself, but if I worked for MT I'd tell them to outsource. Perhaps what's needed is two different products: one for promotions and one for messages that may contain regulatory information and must be delivered if at all possible. Quite how that might work, I've got no idea.
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Dec 8, 2017 17:47:12 GMT
My email address is just a forwarding address. Would that cause the problem? How do they determine whether it's been read? Perhaps. I will ask the question. Thanks. Some organisations test whether an email has been read by checking whether the embedded images have been downloaded from a remote server. This is potentially unreliable because many email clients (e.g. outlook) do NOT automatically download the images, to avoid tipping off spammers that their mail got read. I often don't bother clicking the "download images" button if I have already got the gist of the email contents.
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