johnfleet
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Post by johnfleet on Apr 20, 2018 12:14:59 GMT
Has anyone worked out a foolproof way in which to move loans into their IFISA? I realise that it can only be done via buying and selling on the Secondary Market. But as far as I can tell there's no way of ensuring that one buys one's own loans as the way the market seems to work is that you're automatically matched to the lowest available price? I thought that perhaps I could work the system by listing my loans at a big premium, such that no-one else would want to buy them, but equally I can't find a way to over ride the system and buy my premium loan in preference to other parts on offer at a lower price?
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archie
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Post by archie on Apr 20, 2018 12:58:19 GMT
Has anyone worked out a foolproof way in which to move loans into their IFISA? I realise that it can only be done via buying and selling on the Secondary Market. But as far as I can tell there's no way of ensuring that one buys one's own loans as the way the market seems to work is that you're automatically matched to the lowest available price? I thought that perhaps I could work the system by listing my loans at a big premium, such that no-one else would want to buy them, but equally I can't find a way to over ride the system and buy my premium loan in preference to other parts on offer at a lower price? If your offer is the lowest price, selecting 'Buy' rather than 'Bid' will move them across.
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andy1
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Post by andy1 on Apr 20, 2018 13:16:10 GMT
As long as nobody else buys them in the meantime of course.
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Post by Ace on Apr 20, 2018 13:33:25 GMT
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johnfleet
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Post by johnfleet on Apr 20, 2018 14:24:00 GMT
Has anyone worked out a foolproof way in which to move loans into their IFISA? I realise that it can only be done via buying and selling on the Secondary Market. But as far as I can tell there's no way of ensuring that one buys one's own loans as the way the market seems to work is that you're automatically matched to the lowest available price? I thought that perhaps I could work the system by listing my loans at a big premium, such that no-one else would want to buy them, but equally I can't find a way to over ride the system and buy my premium loan in preference to other parts on offer at a lower price? If your offer is the lowest price, selecting 'Buy' rather than 'Bid' will move them across. sorry - I don't follow what you mean there - I'm probably being thick but my attempts to sell loans to myself today didn't work! I ended up with other folk snaffling up my offers before I had a chance to buy them myself. I imagine that's always likely to happen if folk have placed bids, but I had hoped to get round this by placing a large premium on sale offer to make it unattractive, with the hope that I could them buy it from my IFISA account. I'm not sure if I did something wrong but I ended up selling a loan which I didn't wish to lose so I'm now rather nervous about trying again, unless I'm completely sure of what's going on!
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stub8535
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personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Apr 20, 2018 14:48:06 GMT
If your offer is the lowest price, selecting 'Buy' rather than 'Bid' will move them across. sorry - I don't follow what you mean there - I'm probably being thick but my attempts to sell loans to myself today didn't work! I ended up with other folk snaffling up my offers before I had a chance to buy them myself. I imagine that's always likely to happen if folk have placed bids, but I had hoped to get round this by placing a large premium on sale offer to make it unattractive, with the hope that I could them buy it from my IFISA account. I'm not sure if I did something wrong but I ended up selling a loan which I didn't wish to lose so I'm now rather nervous about trying again, unless I'm completely sure of what's going on! Why would you look to create a loss on a purchase into your ifisa? Makes no sense as it cannot be offset. For a considerable time there have been script users scraping the secondary markets for heavily discounted parts and purchasing them automatically. It stops people selling from their main account to create a claimable tax loss and buying at discount in their ifisa to boost it beyond its limits. If caught doing this to accounts in the same name then I suspect the investor, the platform and the administrators of the ifisa would have some serious questions to answer from HMRC. Is it worth going for small gains in the short term to end up with possible larger fines in the long run? Rhetorical, not requiring answer.
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archie
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Post by archie on Apr 20, 2018 14:50:25 GMT
If your offer is the lowest price, selecting 'Buy' rather than 'Bid' will move them across. sorry - I don't follow what you mean there - I'm probably being thick but my attempts to sell loans to myself today didn't work! I ended up with other folk snaffling up my offers before I had a chance to buy them myself. I imagine that's always likely to happen if folk have placed bids, but I had hoped to get round this by placing a large premium on sale offer to make it unattractive, with the hope that I could them buy it from my IFISA account. I'm not sure if I did something wrong but I ended up selling a loan which I didn't wish to lose so I'm now rather nervous about trying again, unless I'm completely sure of what's going on! Early weekday morning is the best time to avoid your sale being purchased. Order the secondary market on the ISA account by the loan number. On the standard account. Create your own offer where you are lowest price. Make a note of the loan number. Quickly switch to ISA account. Open the secondary market. Scroll down to the loan number. Click Trade. Enter the amount in the 'Amount to buy' box. Click Calculate. Quickly tick the confirmations and the Execute button. I haven't lost anything yet.  Edit : I should add, nearly all my trades were at par.
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johnfleet
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Post by johnfleet on Apr 20, 2018 18:26:13 GMT
Thanks Archie
That's helpful - it seems (if I understand you right?) - that bidding the exact amount trumps the other offers which folk have on the table?
John
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dh1
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Post by dh1 on Apr 20, 2018 19:39:57 GMT
Nice one, Archie! I too have just bought (all) my loans through my IFISA account and not lost any. I'd suggest just one small modification. Look at the secondary market for the loan you are interested in and look at the "best bid" and "best offer" %. What you want is to offer below the current best offer and above the best bid. Then, you "manually" buy the loan at that %, following Archie's helpful and clear guidance. Quickly....
You may find that there isn't a gap between best offer and best bid; just wait. The offers/bids change fairly frequently.
A problem I had was actually finding ther wretched loan in the secondary market; the loan number is your firend here. Order (ie click on the header) the secondary market "Loan" column (ascending or descending); you can the scroll pretty quickly to your target.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 20, 2018 20:58:20 GMT
Actually you can ignore the best bid, since there is no auto-matching. Just make sure yours becomes the best offer and then buy it quickly. I use 2 browsers in parallel, one logged in to each account.
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treeman
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Post by treeman on Apr 20, 2018 21:50:01 GMT
A problem I had was actually finding ther wretched loan in the secondary market; the loan number is your firend here. Order (ie click on the header) the secondary market "Loan" column (ascending or descending); you can the scroll pretty quickly to your target. as SteveT said, use 2 browsers. On the buying (ISA) acccount open the Bids/Offers page for the loan in question. No looking/scrolling to be done. Back to the Standard Account. Create your offer. Whizz to the other browser, refresh the page and do the deed fumble/panic free
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johnfleet
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Post by johnfleet on Apr 20, 2018 22:52:23 GMT
Thanks guys - with your sage advice I've managed to do the transfers. Now my next question is: is it possible to have only an IFISA with Ablrate. My cunning plan is now to open an IFISA in my wife's name to enable us to jointly hold all 'my' Ablrate investments within the IFISA wrappers using this year's IFISA allowances...
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poppyland
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Post by poppyland on Apr 20, 2018 23:22:22 GMT
You are entitled to one IFISA each, so you can certainly open one in your wife's name.
For a slightly safer way of transferring money from one account to another, you can bid for a loan part from the IFISA, and then go and fill that bid from your standard account. This way, the only risk is that someone else will quickly sell you the desired amount, before you can sell it to yourself from the standard account. But the downside of transferring via bids is that you must always be the highest bidder, so that when you sell from your standard account the automatic system allocates that sale to the bid you made from the IFISA. This means that sometimes you must bid at over 100% to be the highest bidder.
A nice little trick, if you are feeling daring, is to use the alternative system of offer made from standard account followed by extremely fast buying from the IFISA to give yourself a discount on the part you are are buying from the IFISA. I've sold things to myself at 99%, and even on one occasion 97%. There's always a risk that some quick fingered person will buy the stuff first, but I've not had this problem.
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archie
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Post by archie on Apr 21, 2018 4:37:51 GMT
Thanks guys - with your sage advice I've managed to do the transfers. Now my next question is: is it possible to have only an IFISA with Ablrate. My cunning plan is now to open an IFISA in my wife's name to enable us to jointly hold all 'my' Ablrate investments within the IFISA wrappers using this year's IFISA allowances... You can open as many IFISAs as you want. Only one in each tax year for each person can have new money added to it. The others can have money from previous years ISAs transferred over.
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