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Post by patright on May 3, 2018 13:52:47 GMT
Hi All,
From the look of it, it seems like a very stable business, of course lower returns but if risk is low
Does anyone with much more knowledge than me have any thought on this lender?
thanks a lot
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p2pmaster
investment is life.
Posts: 128 
Likes: 54
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Post by p2pmaster on May 3, 2018 15:44:50 GMT
I like and welcome new products on Mintos, including VAT refunds/loans.
I would have preferred more information on presentation or audited financials, but they might add it as time passes:
- default rate or missed payments from tax authorities due to errors in documents?
- what happens if state tax inspection does not pay?
- provided consolidated financials are of EBV Finance UAB (LT)?
- consolidated financials include investments in subsidiaries? audited report would help to get clarity on consolidation method
- VAT turnover is not growing, but revenues are. at the same time VAT turnover is not growing, but receivables are? longer VAT recovery time or more financing of VAT recovery
- significant equity fluctuations?
- they mentioned 1-6 months recovery time, but issued loans are for 8/9 months?
- loan portfolio EUR 17m, equity EUR 4.8m, loan liabilities EUR 3.1 m, where are the missing EUR 9.1m?
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Post by patright on May 3, 2018 16:22:37 GMT
I was also thinking about all that we hear in the news (french one anyway) about Fraud on VAT using a triangle of 3 companies in different countries etc, the screening must be well done or it will be a vacuum
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Post by glensm on May 4, 2018 12:21:05 GMT
- they mentioned 1-6 months recovery time, but issued loans are for 8/9 months? I was under the impression that the VAT authorities may turn around in 1-6 months but they are extending loans for 8-9 months in order to cover for that?
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Post by patright on May 4, 2018 14:31:10 GMT
that would indeed make sense but I still wonder about fraud, VAT fraud is actually huge in the EU and maybe I am wrong but the website of EBV does not seem to cover this topic
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Post by patright on May 4, 2018 14:51:06 GMT
PS: otherwise to be fair, its a brilliant business idea because when all is done right, VAT return is indeed gold, even Greece at it's worst moment returned VAT
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fric
Member of DD Central
Posts: 199
Likes: 79
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Post by fric on May 8, 2018 12:39:27 GMT
Well, this doesn't really guarantee anything if you ask me. Why? Well, VAT repayments are just like any other transactions, the business gets the money at some point and its theirs to do whatever they want. There is no guarantee that the company will immediately repay the loan, they might as well use the money for other purposes e.g. cash flow management, paying off other debts/suppliers, paying employees etc. etc.
So if a company is in financial trouble, its still just a regular non-collateral loan that in case of a bankrupt will just wait in line in the liquidation process like everyone else. Oh, and it sounds just like a regular cashflow loan/credit line or whatever term you are using in your country. I doubt they can actually collateralise the future VAT payments in a legal loan agreement.
Sure, if they can actually collaterize it in some way, so that in a case of financial trouble EBV Finance is the first in line to receive, than sure, sounds interesting.
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gunther
New Member
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
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Post by gunther on May 8, 2018 19:30:17 GMT
Actually if there is someway for them to guarantee that the debtor, instead of their own account number, state the one of ETV in their application to the taxman, they are on the safe side as long as the companys vat claim is a valid one.
I would actually be more worried about what kind of insight the creditor has of the underlying expensis from which the VAT claim is made from, as there is always the chance that the taxman do not like/ trust the expensis and therby refuse their claim...
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