star dust
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Post by star dust on Jun 23, 2018 9:53:16 GMT
This issue is important to a far wider group of investors than just a syndicate. Someone is needed to stand up for the likely more numerous vanilla retail investors too and aim to strike a balance for all interests. Given that investors have different portfolio's it's not going to be any easy task; a trusted person with a broader outlook, perspective and objectivity is required.
I don't think it matters if they are Collateral investors or not as long as they have some knowledge and are interested in the 'greater good'.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 23, 2018 9:58:33 GMT
I'd support dualinvestor too. I'm not registered on Frank but he's posted an email address there which you can use to contact him and get a pro forma letter to support his nomination.
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mickj
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Post by mickj on Jun 23, 2018 10:16:42 GMT
Seems to be heading in that direction, I will nominate both dualinvestor and the BondMason Client Ltd
I am assuming I can nominate more than one representative ?
do we need a few more candidates ?
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 23, 2018 10:40:28 GMT
Seems to be heading in that direction, I will nominate both dualinvestor and the BondMason Client Ltd I am assuming I can nominate more than one representative ? do we need a few more candidates ? I am not sure you can nominate more than one individual to represent you, and the value of your debt. Best to check that.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jun 23, 2018 10:55:38 GMT
I posted on the other thread pondering if moorfields would be interested in serving on the committee. Regardless of who serves, I hope the high costs of BDO will be challenged. The court specifically said that all costs should be reasonable. The report says that the FCA negotiated their fees prior to appointment and that they were lower than their standard charge-out fees. However, comparing the fees to those charged by another insolvency practitioner / administrator in another case (Digbies - the FC London hotel loans) they are higher. As such, I don't think that the FCA negotiated very well and that we should go back to the negotiating table on this point.
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blender
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Post by blender on Jun 23, 2018 10:59:02 GMT
Moorfields would need paying, I guess. Even volunteers would have costs of attending.
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Jun 23, 2018 13:16:18 GMT
I assume the meetings would all be in London? "Joint Administrators will seek to arrange meetings in the most appropriate format given the widelydispersed nature of the investor/creditor base". Skype would do then
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DeafEater
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Post by DeafEater on Jun 23, 2018 13:26:26 GMT
"Joint Administrators will seek to arrange meetings in the most appropriate format given the widelydispersed nature of the investor/creditor base". Skype would do then I think given the location of DualInvester, Skype had better do. It isn't what I'd call a commutable distance.
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duck
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Post by duck on Jun 23, 2018 13:38:05 GMT
......
I don't think it matters if they are Collateral investors or not as long as they have some knowledge and are interested in the 'greater good'. I beg to differ. A Col investor who had invested in all the high risk later tranche property loans has a vested interest in seeing proceeds 'pooled'. An investor who took the lower interest but safer early tranches has an opposing interest. A 'bling' investor has no interest in the property loans. That is why IMHO dualinvestor who was not an investor would make an ideal candidate.
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Jun 23, 2018 13:41:11 GMT
I think given the location of DualInvester, Skype had better do. It isn't what I'd call a commutable distance. Lol very true!
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jun 23, 2018 14:01:17 GMT
......
I don't think it matters if they are Collateral investors or not as long as they have some knowledge and are interested in the 'greater good'. I beg to differ. A Col investor who had invested in all the high risk later tranche property loans has a vested interest in seeing proceeds 'pooled'. An investor who took the lower interest but safer early tranches has an opposing interest. A 'bling' investor has no interest in the property loans. That is why IMHO dualinvestor who was not an investor would make an ideal candidate. There are also the interests of people who invested into loans like Chesterfield (circa £1.5 million), Blackpool (£125k) and later Bolton tranches (£172k) which didn't even draw down. These invested funds (around 11.5% of total loan book) may not be secured on anything at all through no fault of their own and investors could be facing some bleak times ahead in this process. I agree that DI is an excellent choice. There are so many scenarios that it's difficult for individual investors to show a 100% objective view.
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snowmobile
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Post by snowmobile on Jun 23, 2018 14:06:03 GMT
I posted on the other thread pondering if moorfields would be interested in serving on the committee. Regardless of who serves, I hope the high costs of BDO will be challenged. The court specifically said that all costs should be reasonable. The report says that the FCA negotiated their fees prior to appointment and that they were lower than their standard charge-out fees. However, comparing the fees to those charged by another insolvency practitioner / administrator in another case (Digbies - the FC London hotel loans) they are higher. As such, I don't think that the FCA negotiated very well and that we should go back to the negotiating table on this point. It is interesting to note the comments on pages 18/19 of the report, regarding the significant departure from the original plan to use Manchester based staff to supervise the wind down. Estimates of costs quoted to the FCA and court hearing would likely have been based upon the original plan. However they are now using a London based team with primary responsibility and Manchester staff only on ad-hoc basis. The London and Manchester rates are set out on page 40. The London rates are roughly 40-45% higher than the Manchester rates. It is not clear therefore how it is supposed to be more 'cost effective' to have a London based team.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 23, 2018 14:45:39 GMT
......
I don't think it matters if they are Collateral investors or not as long as they have some knowledge and are interested in the 'greater good'. I beg to differ. A Col investor who had invested in all the high risk later tranche property loans has a vested interest in seeing proceeds 'pooled'. An investor who took the lower interest but safer early tranches has an opposing interest. A 'bling' investor has no interest in the property loans. That is why IMHO dualinvestor who was not an investor would make an ideal candidate. This is what I feared but I don't think the interests are opposing even if they are not 100% aligned. Neither category want to be treated as creditors. I'm not sure what the best solution is. Paul123 made the point earlier about having a few more and I would agree. My vote (assuming he wanted to stand) would be for someone grounded in the real world with a bit of fire in their belly. Someone like ozboy perhaps? I wouldn't be against DI and his experience certainly count heavily towards him but I _think_ he is more popular amongst the less vanilla and more professional investor.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jun 23, 2018 15:07:37 GMT
Good spot snowmobile . The report states "Originally, it was envisaged that the Companies would continue to trade during the administration period from their Manchester premises, and that staff from the Joint Administrators’ Manchester office would have supervised the wind down of the Companies activities and the work of their employees". Given that the businesses had already ceased trading prior to the appointment of BDO, this can't be correct, and makes me wonder for how long they had been planning to step in.
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mason
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Post by mason on Jun 23, 2018 15:16:11 GMT
Paul123 made the point earlier about having a few more and I would agree. My vote (assuming he wanted to stand) would be for someone grounded in the real world with a bit of fire in their belly. Someone like ozboy perhaps? We should keep ozboy up our sleeves in case we need set him loose on any of the RICS members who were used to generate the original valuations.
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