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Post by Duane Dibley on Jun 23, 2018 15:33:16 GMT
That is why IMHO dualinvestor who was not an investor would make an ideal candidate. How's that going to work then? To be on a Creditors Committee you need to be an unsecured creditor.
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mason
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Post by mason on Jun 23, 2018 15:42:57 GMT
That is why IMHO dualinvestor who was not an investor would make an ideal candidate. How's that going to work then? To be on a Creditors Committee you need to be an unsecured creditor. Any creditor or creditors can nominate another individual to represent them on the committee. For the time being BDO are treating all lenders as creditors without prejudice to how they are to be treated in future.
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Post by Duane Dibley on Jun 23, 2018 16:02:53 GMT
Any creditor or creditors can nominate another individual to represent them on the committee. No. A member of the committee may nominate another person to represent them, but to sit on any creditors committee, not just this one, you need to be an unsecured creditor.
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mikeh
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Post by mikeh on Jun 23, 2018 16:16:36 GMT
Any creditor or creditors can nominate another individual to represent them on the committee. No. A member of the committee may nominate another person to represent them, but to sit on any creditors committee, not just this one, you need to be an unsecured creditor. I think you are both right. The member of the committee must be a creditor but he can authorize a proxy to represent him on the committee.
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james21
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Post by james21 on Jun 23, 2018 16:40:54 GMT
Page 50 says "" (such a committee must comprise between 3 and 5 investors and/or
creditors)""
Just for my benefit so I can understand it; where in the doc does it mention authorising proxis members?
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Post by Duane Dibley on Jun 23, 2018 16:58:08 GMT
The member of the committee must be a creditor but he can authorize a proxy to represent him on the committee. Correct.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 23, 2018 17:35:46 GMT
Paul123 made the point earlier about having a few more and I would agree. My vote (assuming he wanted to stand) would be for someone grounded in the real world with a bit of fire in their belly. Someone like ozboy perhaps? We should keep ozboy up our sleeves in case we need set him loose on any of the RICS members who were used to generate the original valuations. Someone mention RICS?! Valuations?! LTVs?! Professionalism, honesty and integrity?!
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greenslime
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Post by greenslime on Jun 23, 2018 17:48:14 GMT
Although he doesn't post on this forum anymore...I personally would have gone for Dualinvestor I would too and he has his plaudits in the other place as well. Someone has already asked him (in the other place) if he would be prepared to be part of the Creditor's Committee and he has said that if nominated, he would. He is a retired insolvency practitioner (qualified as a chartered accountant) and I've always found his posts to be calm, reasoned and certainly on matters of insolvency, erudite. My bold. Surely excellent credentials for the job and from what I recall of his postings I would agree with the rest of that sentence. Does it need a creditor to be elected and then immediately hand their proxy to DI?
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mason
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Post by mason on Jun 23, 2018 18:35:03 GMT
Any creditor or creditors can nominate another individual to represent them on the committee. No. A member of the committee may nominate another person to represent them, but to sit on any creditors committee, not just this one, you need to be an unsecured creditor. This has been discussed in the other place and DI has chimed in on it with the following: "A committee in any insolvency is usually made up of representatives of creditors because the latter are usually bodies corporate, or the crown. This insolvency is different in that most of the investors are individuals. So if people wish to nominate me I would be Mr A representing Mssrs D, E, F etc and XYZ Limited (in cases where the investments were made through a limited company). It is not a question of people making me, or anyone else, their proxy. Even though I may be representing several people I would only have one vote."
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jun 23, 2018 18:43:54 GMT
No. A member of the committee may nominate another person to represent them, but to sit on any creditors committee, not just this one, you need to be an unsecured creditor. This has been discussed in the other place and DI has chimed in on it with the following: "A committee in any insolvency is usually made up of representatives of creditors because the latter are usually bodies corporate, or the crown. This insolvency is different in that most of the investors are individuals. So if people wish to nominate me I would be Mr A representing Mssrs D, E, F etc and XYZ Limited (in cases where the investments were made through a limited company). It is not a question of people making me, or anyone else, their proxy. Even though I may be representing several people I would only have one vote." Mr Alphabet would need to represent one fifth of creditors by value to ensure Mr A qualified if other bodies were looking to get representation. Obviously if desire is low enough and there are less than 5 applicants old Mrs Z and her £5 gets him the job. Edit ok that's cryptic even by my standards. If more than five people apply to be on the committee, they are selected by the amount of the overall claim they represent.
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mason
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Post by mason on Jun 23, 2018 18:52:09 GMT
This has been discussed in the other place and DI has chimed in on it with the following: "A committee in any insolvency is usually made up of representatives of creditors because the latter are usually bodies corporate, or the crown. This insolvency is different in that most of the investors are individuals. So if people wish to nominate me I would be Mr A representing Mssrs D, E, F etc and XYZ Limited (in cases where the investments were made through a limited company). It is not a question of people making me, or anyone else, their proxy. Even though I may be representing several people I would only have one vote." Mr Alphabet would need to represent one fifth of creditors by value to ensure Mr A qualified if other bodies were looking to get representation. Obviously if desire is low enough and there are less than 5 applicants old Mrs Z and her £5 gets him the job. As I understand it, it wouldn't have to be one fifth of creditors by value, but in the top 5 nominated individuals by value. So, for example, if Mr BM represented 10% of creditors by value, Mr A 2%, Mr B 1%, Mr C and Mr D both 0.5% and Mr E 0.4%, only the latter would miss out. So it seems likely anyone representing more than a handful of individual lenders is in with a reasonable chance as I doubt the majority of lenders will participate.
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mason
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Post by mason on Jun 23, 2018 19:03:32 GMT
As I understand it, it wouldn't have to be one fifth of creditors by value, but in the top 5 nominated individuals by value. So, for example, if Mr BM represented 10% of creditors by value, Mr A 2%, Mr B 1%, Mr C and Mr D both 0.5% and Mr E 0.4%, only the latter would miss out. So it seems likely anyone representing more than a handful of individual lenders is in with a reasonable chance as I doubt the majority of lenders will participate. That is my understanding. but obviously if your Mr E can get Miss DD to set him as a proxy for her 0,2% things change. Yes, there was a deadline for registering as a creditor, but I don't know if that is also the deadline for choosing to be represented. A decision could be made without any opportunity for such re-grouping to occur, but I'm just speculating at this point.
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amphoria
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Post by amphoria on Jun 23, 2018 19:28:53 GMT
That is my understanding. but obviously if your Mr E can get Miss DD to set him as a proxy for her 0,2% things change. Yes, there was a deadline for registering as a creditor, but I don't know if that is also the deadline for choosing to be represented. A decision could be made without any opportunity for such re-grouping to occur, but I'm just speculating at this point. Nominations for the Creditor's Committee need to be posted to arrive at BDO's offices by 4 pm on 4th July (see para 16 of the report).
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mason
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Post by mason on Jun 23, 2018 19:35:40 GMT
Yes, there was a deadline for registering as a creditor, but I don't know if that is also the deadline for choosing to be represented. A decision could be made without any opportunity for such re-grouping to occur, but I'm just speculating at this point. I suspect the dealing needs to be done before the deadline. So as a precaution if you are wanting a certain representative you ensure they have sufficient backing. I'm not exactly spoilt for choice. I'm also not looking to exert any influence over the committee by proxy and so it does not matter to me if the person I support turns out not to have sufficient backing. My hope is that the majority of the committee will act in the interests of all lenders.
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Post by dan1 on Jun 23, 2018 21:48:39 GMT
......
I don't think it matters if they are Collateral investors or not as long as they have some knowledge and are interested in the 'greater good'. I beg to differ. A Col investor who had invested in all the high risk later tranche property loans has a vested interest in seeing proceeds 'pooled'. An investor who took the lower interest but safer early tranches has an opposing interest. A 'bling' investor has no interest in the property loans. That is why IMHO dualinvestor who was not an investor would make an ideal candidate. You've hit the nail on the head, decisions on who should serve on the creditors committee should be made in knowledge of vested interest. All those connected to the alternative finance/direct lending/peer-to-peer industry have a vested interest in proceedings. However, those interests may not align with your own. I would expect those who serve on the credit committee to represent the interests of those they represent and not necessarily the interests of all of the investors. An analysis of the possible candidates who have emerged to my knowledge to date (note that I don't follow frank, MSE Forums, nor the forum on TC): BondMason Client Ltd ( stevefindlay) - Invested in select property backed loans on behalf of their clients. - Assume they invested on preferential terms. Moorfields Advisory Ltd ( moorfields) - "a firm of Insolvency Practitioners who have experience in advising P2P firms" - Introduced to the forum by MoneyThing - would they be prepared to serve on the creditors committee and if so would they charge a fee? - Insolvency "advice" is presumably covered by professional indemnity insurance. DualInvestor ( dualinvestor) - Represents a syndicate of COL lenders who invested on preferential terms. - Not a COL investor - Identity unknown in public but a retired Insolvency Practitioner qualified as a Chartered Accountant In my opinion the stand out candidate is moorfields. They are practising Insolvency Practictioners with experience in this sector and also because the interests of MoneyThing align with lenders, whether they invested in bling, grouped asset or property backed loans (MoneyThing being another high yield platform with experience in bling, grouped asset and property back loans). If they are unable to serve on the creditors committee then BondMason would be my choice. They too have an interest in maintaining confidence in the sector although one would expect them to serve their clients interests, i.e. those select property backed loans. They are visible both on the forum and through their business on which we can undertake our own due diligence. I would not be prepared to vote for someone who is unknown to me and wishes to remain private. Experience of this industry should inform us all in that we should undertake due diligence on all those who we choose to influence our finances whether that be platforms, borrowers, or those who serve on a creditors committee. Please someone correct me if I'm misinformed but I believe this applies to DualInvestor. If I were to vote for DualInvestor I would need to perform my own due diligence (as has recently been performed on Gordon Craig of Refresh Recovery). They also represent a syndicate of lenders who invested on preferential terms, presumably the syndicate comprises of high net worth investors (referred to as big hitters, BH and medium hitters, MH) who would have invested in the larger loans, that is the property backed loans and maybe some of the larger grouped asset loans. It would be naive to expect DualInvestor to represent the interests of those outside of the syndicate although it is not unreasonable to expect considerable support from those who wish to be inside the syndicate (although you should ask yourself why given the disastrous decision to invest in Collateral, I can make that mistake myself thank you very much ). We should expect there to be other syndicates who are unknown the forum(s) and institutional investors who would also have invested on preferential terms.
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