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Post by Duane Dibley on Sept 2, 2018 19:04:25 GMT
Over the last 12-18 months I've seen quite a shift in the role of P2P investments in my personal investment/savings strategy.
When I started in P2P about 8 years ago, it was firmly in the wealth creation role, there were plenty of loans available at 13,14,15% and I would have been disappointed with any returns under 10%.
In the last couple of years there's been quite a change in the industry as a whole, heroes have become villains, platforms have gone bust and the defaults have racked up.
Simultaneously the role of P2P has changed for me personally as well, instead of wealth creation it now fulfils a role of wealth preservation, and instead of returns of 13,14,15%, I'm targeting returns of 4,5,6% and happy with anything that beats inflation.
I'm not saying one role or the other is any better or worse, I do still invest in one or two platforms that offer double digit rates, but the wealth preservation model just fits in with my own personal circumstances as I move from the accumulation phase to the consolidation phase.
So I was wondering whether other people's use of P2P investments has likewise changed over the years, either because of changes to the industry or changes in personal circumstances, and whether that change, like me, is becoming more conservative or alternatively more speculative.
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Sept 2, 2018 21:39:53 GMT
I am mainly getting OUT of P2P, too many lies & deceit, trickery & treachery, and they somehow continue to get away with it. Go figure. I mainly have zombie loans now and can't wait till they're all settled. In 3 or 4 years time. If I'm lucky.  |
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macq
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Post by macq on Sept 2, 2018 23:35:29 GMT
I am mainly getting OUT of P2P, too many lies & deceit, trickery & treachery, and they somehow continue to get away with it. Go figure. I mainly have zombie loans now and can't wait till they're all settled. In 3 or 4 years time. If I'm lucky. does that include P2P from down under if you have any or are you more impressed by how they run it?
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Sept 3, 2018 10:16:58 GMT
I'm only with Marketlend and Ratesetter in Oz, and remaining with both for the time being. Marketlend after several years with them seems to be the way a Platform should be run and I have no problems so far. Chalk and cheese compared to the many no integrity UK P2Ps. The MD Leo comes across as no-nonsense, straight as a die, and knows what he's doing. Check out his profile on their website, it's impressive and makes many UK P2P operators laughable. Ratesetter Oz appears to be a separate autonomous entity and run differently but I am keeping a close eye on them in case they pick up on and start UK type shenanigans. As I have said before, IMHO Oz P2P has far more integrity and is far better run than the UK. I am constantly amazed at the docile acceptance in the UK of blatant Platform dishonesty. It just wouldn't happen in Oz, they wouldn't stand for it and would have had the Platforms' guts for garters long ago. NONE of this is investment advice, it is simply where my own Oz P2P is invested, always do your own Due Diligence.  |
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Sept 3, 2018 10:30:00 GMT
I'm only with Marketlend and Ratesetter in Oz, and remaining with both for the time being. Marketlend after several years with them seems to be the way a Platform should be run and I have no problems so far. Chalk and cheese compared to the many no integrity UK P2Ps. The MD Leo comes across as no-nonsense, straight as a die, and knows what he's doing. Check out his profile on their website, it's impressive and makes many UK P2P operators laughable. Ratesetter Oz appears to be a separate autonomous entity and run differently but I am keeping a close eye on them in case they pick up on and start UK type shenanigans. As I have said before, IMHO Oz P2P has far more integrity and is far better run than the UK. I am constantly amazed at the docile acceptance in the UK of blatant Platform dishonesty. It just wouldn't happen in Oz, they wouldn't stand for it and would have had the Platforms' guts for garters long ago.NONE of this is investment advice, it is simply where my own Oz P2P is invested, always do your own Due Diligence. whilst I share your frustrations at the "wrongs" of 'p2p' do you not think that making the whole sector out to be one big pile of mess with rampant fraud and dishonesty is just a little overdone? If P2P did not exist that is fine and life would carry on. But because it does exist we have seen something like ~ £10b* of loans made, with ~ £500m* of net returns. That same £10b* (if measured against a savings account) would have yielded ~ £50m* So, average 10x return VS a savings account to date*
I think you should put that as your signature so as to start with an honest state of play/overview and then go from there with your complaints/views on 'p2p' This should be a forum to help people that ARE investing or considering investing so both sides of the coin should be aired * figures are entirely made up as I havent the time to get the actual figures, but the point is clear and if you disagree please do provide figures that reflect something so much worse to justify your comments
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Sept 3, 2018 10:41:58 GMT
Hmmmm, have I tarred the whole sector dandy, I don't think so? I try to be circumspect and astutely use the word "many" when talking about delinquent Platforms, although I recall I may have occasionally lapsed into "most." I still stand by everything I say and have never said there aren't "good" Platforms. The point being we have seen so many "good" Platforms go "bad" that there is obviously much wrong with the sector. |
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macq
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Post by macq on Sept 3, 2018 12:30:26 GMT
I'm only with Marketlend and Ratesetter in Oz, and remaining with both for the time being. Marketlend after several years with them seems to be the way a Platform should be run and I have no problems so far. Chalk and cheese compared to the many no integrity UK P2Ps. The MD Leo comes across as no-nonsense, straight as a die, and knows what he's doing. Check out his profile on their website, it's impressive and makes many UK P2P operators laughable. Ratesetter Oz appears to be a separate autonomous entity and run differently but I am keeping a close eye on them in case they pick up on and start UK type shenanigans. As I have said before, IMHO Oz P2P has far more integrity and is far better run than the UK. I am constantly amazed at the docile acceptance in the UK of blatant Platform dishonesty. It just wouldn't happen in Oz, they wouldn't stand for it and would have had the Platforms' guts for garters long ago. NONE of this is investment advice, it is simply where my own Oz P2P is invested, always do your own Due Diligence. Thanks for the info - but too late for disclaimer i will hold you responsible 
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 14:28:33 GMT
P2P for me is a bit of fun, the process where by you exit from successful loans on completion and get stuck in un-successful loans was always going to accumulate a bunch of un-successful loans. So we were always going to end up with stuff in default. Think of it as a eel net on a river bed, the ones that miss the net go "around" again and their children end up stuck in the net. Since this is only again with potential top line to the gain of +12 15% but with a possible loss of 100% it was always "too wisky". S&S have been far more successful in the same time period BTW.
Those portals who are experienced at default management will survive, those that arn't will have a tough time. Of the people I think will manage defaults well are MT and ABL, those who will struggle are Lendy and FS. I hope I'm wrong and they all succeed but right now three of these four must be having some tough Board meetings.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Sept 3, 2018 16:25:01 GMT
I'm only with Marketlend and Ratesetter in Oz, and remaining with both for the time being. Marketlend after several years with them seems to be the way a Platform should be run and I have no problems so far. Chalk and cheese compared to the many no integrity UK P2Ps. The MD Leo comes across as no-nonsense, straight as a die, and knows what he's doing. Check out his profile on their website, it's impressive and makes many UK P2P operators laughable. Ratesetter Oz appears to be a separate autonomous entity and run differently but I am keeping a close eye on them in case they pick up on and start UK type shenanigans. As I have said before, IMHO Oz P2P has far more integrity and is far better run than the UK. I am constantly amazed at the docile acceptance in the UK of blatant Platform dishonesty. It just wouldn't happen in Oz, they wouldn't stand for it and would have had the Platforms' guts for garters long ago. NONE of this is investment advice, it is simply where my own Oz P2P is invested, always do your own Due Diligence. Hi, do you think this applies to AC - but that if only in the QAA or 30DA that their "dishonesty" is hidden? Are you talking about the higher interest platforms or all?
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Sept 3, 2018 21:28:46 GMT
I know nothing about AC other than I have funds in their QA, I stopped manually buying Loans with them years ago and have one Zombie Loan currently at the three years old mark.
As a Rule of Thumb there does seem to be a correlation with some Platforms wherein the higher the interest rate offered the more likely "shenanigans" will be utilised. Everyone on here who has experience knows exactly who and what I mean.
Come The Reckoning!!!
btw, I note that Broadoak seem to be pursuing a negligence claim against the Valuer on a certain well known MT problem Loan. If it's that straightforward then why don't The P2P Platforms pursue, and vigorously? There is ample evidence available. I think we all know why.
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blender
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Post by blender on Sept 3, 2018 21:46:21 GMT
I know nothing about AC other than I have funds in their QA, I stopped manually buying Loans with them years ago and have one Zombie Loan currently at the three years old mark. As a Rule of Thumb there does seem to be a correlation with some Platforms wherein the higher the interest rate offered the more likely "shenanigans" will be utilised. Everyone on here who has experience knows exactly who and what I mean. Come The Reckoning!!! btw, I note that Broadoak seem to be pursuing a negligence claim against the Valuer on a certain well known MT problem Loan. If it's that straightforward then why don't The P2P Platforms pursue, and vigorously? There is ample evidence available. I think we all know why. Do we? If the platform has no loss, then they have nothing to claim from a valuer.
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