blender
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Post by blender on Feb 7, 2019 22:53:47 GMT
Oh! A few developments since I last looked. That should help lift the clouds from the rest of the loan book. It is looking like a top draw save, still leaves a few question over the defence that let the shot take place (football analogy, might confuse you). Maybe the manager is good enough to get the best out of average players, looks that way at the moment. Might just be that 'Arbitrary' and 'seat of the pants' is a viable tactic. That one probably does need a smiley, but I just cant bring myself to do it. The manager may be very capable, with a lot of silverware collected in the past, but it's a tough game and the manager is always judged on the result of the latest match.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 8, 2019 11:58:15 GMT
while it will be good if the restructuring goes a head and Abl's position on fee's is a positive step i tend to be on the side of the fence that at some point the market should have been paused/reset(and fair play to Abl for saying quickly that they will review) and if the plan does not come about there could be more swings the other way.It would compere in someways to company shares that pause trading when significant news is expected such as takeovers etc and can be seen even today with NAB shares paused awaiting management news
I don't think 'pause' is adequate - you need to ensure that those with offers/bids out there get a chance to review them under the new circumstances. I think the bids/offers should all be nuked (as happened with partial capital repayment on the M** loans iirc), and people can set up new bids/offers if they choose to. Whoever was selling at 75% probably wanted to change that offer before the market un-paused again (if not, can I please have some more).
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 8, 2019 13:05:24 GMT
while it will be good if the restructuring goes a head and Abl's position on fee's is a positive step i tend to be on the side of the fence that at some point the market should have been paused/reset(and fair play to Abl for saying quickly that they will review) and if the plan does not come about there could be more swings the other way.It would compere in someways to company shares that pause trading when significant news is expected such as takeovers etc and can be seen even today with NAB shares paused awaiting management news
I don't think 'pause' is adequate - you need to ensure that those with offers/bids out there get a chance to review them under the new circumstances. I think the bids/offers should all be nuked (as happened with partial capital repayment on the M** loans iirc), and people can set up new bids/offers if they choose to. Whoever was selling at 75% probably wanted to change that offer before the market un-paused again (if not, can I please have some more).
Was thinking this morning that reset maybe better then pause but was not sure if Abl are allowed to do that so would agree pause may not work and "nuking" maybe better I have no problem with people trading defaulted,late loans or with trading news etc(as long as all the info can be viewed) as each person is taking a view on how that loan will go so its buyer beware But when its a major change to the terms i think a chance for a re-think should be allowed not FF off an email and yes i realise that if this plan does not go a head people who bought yesterday may not gain anyway
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blender
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Post by blender on Feb 8, 2019 13:18:06 GMT
I don't wish to detract from the hugely positive step that has been taken by ablrate in making the announcement, and the issue of trading is secondary. But I was saying quite strongly that none of these loans should have been trading, and I include 85 because it was so heavily linked financially to 97, 104 & 105 that much material information was not known to lenders. However, it is interesting that my concern was that the existing offers on 85 and 67 looked dangerous for purchasers, and there was little support for that view, but now it seems that these loans are looked at more favourably, there are howls of anguish, presumably in support of those whose existing offers were bought. I doubt that we will hear much from those who bought at 75% and are selling at 90%. We are not at the end of this saga yet, and I still think that these six loans should not be traded, at least until we have a revaluation of the security and some sort of prospectus for the new trading borrower entity.
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sjg
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Post by sjg on Feb 8, 2019 13:43:18 GMT
Must admit by the time I had read the update for both loans which I had very small parts for sale in had already been sold. I would have been happy for the sales offers to be cancelled by Ablrate and the sales not to have gone through in this case. So good to see that is the plan for the future.
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macq
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Post by macq on Feb 8, 2019 13:48:17 GMT
I don't wish to detract from the hugely positive step that has been taken by ablrate in making the announcement, and the issue of trading is secondary. But I was saying quite strongly that none of these loans should have been trading, and I include 85 because it was so heavily linked financially to 97, 104 & 105 that much material information was not known to lenders. However, it is interesting that my concern was that the existing offers on 85 and 67 looked dangerous for purchasers, and there was little support for that view, but now it seems that these loans are looked at more favourably, there are howls of anguish, presumably in support of those whose existing offers were bought. I doubt that we will hear much from those who bought at 75% and are selling at 90%. We are not at the end of this saga yet, and I still think that these six loans should not be traded, at least until we have a revaluation of the security and some sort of prospectus for the new trading borrower entity. Personally i would agree on what you say about the trading of loans in trouble but it seems many want to trade so if that is the case on a general day to day basis these loans would be clearly flagged and with all the info out for everybody to review either after a pause or reset maybe(and people who bought yesterday may still end wishing they had not) But when the borrower changes or the rate or the length of term changes then you are dealing with a complete new loan in someways not a change of news on trading conditions on the old loan so there should be a way of taking that news on board first and maybe doing some DD.Which would be of use to both buyer and seller
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blender
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Post by blender on Feb 8, 2019 17:17:28 GMT
When I looked at 67 yesterday morning the offers included one for £20k at 75%. I wonder if the seller got there in time? Ouch!
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Feb 8, 2019 17:38:36 GMT
When I looked at 67 yesterday morning the offers included one for £20k at 75%. I wonder if the seller got there in time? Ouch! Hard to say, it was all over in a flash. There was a fair bit on the market at 75%. I rescued a small amount and released it to a more caring owner almost immediately. Also generously sold the small amount I had held for a little while. I wish it all a happy future. I do however agree with you that would sting a bit. However they would probably have been happy if it it had gone last week, and not be too worried about who had bought it in that scenario.
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Post by oktaeder on Feb 27, 2019 16:31:57 GMT
3 weeks passed. Any news? Looking forward to interest repayments now.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Mar 2, 2019 9:38:21 GMT
There is an interesting article on www.p2pfinancenews.co.uk regarding loans to this group via another platform. I wonder if that is the reason why the deal has still not yet closed.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Mar 2, 2019 9:45:33 GMT
There is an interesting article on www.p2pfinancenews.co.uk regarding loans to this group via another platform. I wonder if that is the reason why the deal has still not yet closed. I doubt it, as that's rather old news (belatedly dawning on certain Crowdstacker lenders). The Crowdstacker loans were always a disaster waiting to happen. Learning point: a first-ranking company debenture is NOT the same thing as a first legal charge over property!
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Post by ablrate on Mar 2, 2019 11:26:19 GMT
There is an interesting article on www.p2pfinancenews.co.uk regarding loans to this group via another platform. I wonder if that is the reason why the deal has still not yet closed. Nothing to do with that, its just the final negotiations and legals... and as the story here shows.. those cannot be rushed
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 2, 2019 18:14:36 GMT
There is an interesting article on www.p2pfinancenews.co.uk regarding loans to this group via another platform. I wonder if that is the reason why the deal has still not yet closed. I doubt it, as that's rather old news (belatedly dawning on certain Crowdstacker lenders). The Crowdstacker loans were always a disaster waiting to happen. Learning point: a first-ranking company debenture is NOT the same thing as a first legal charge over property!Too true: there are many learning points here for me. The proposals of the bn administrator should be compulsory reading for lenders. The losses have to fall somewhere and its seems that the £8M owed to our fellow Crowdstacker lenders is unrecoverable, in part because security was not given/taken over various property assets, which were pledged, with a charge, against other loans. The Crowdstacker loans have to fall if a viable business is to be constructed to maintain the secured loans made through two other platforms. Next time it could be us. It could still be us this time to some extent. A first legal charge on property is the most reliable security, and that should be supported by a professional valuation of current worth to a third party, not some future projected worth which assumes the borrower trades to plan over a number of years. That's for the equity holders, imo.
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seb8072
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Post by seb8072 on Mar 6, 2019 8:23:20 GMT
As part of email sent out to holders of 80 or 98, there was a brief addition regarding these loans. Next update promised on or before 20 March.
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nw99
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Post by nw99 on Mar 6, 2019 8:34:44 GMT
How is that related to this thread 67/68/85/97/104/105 ?
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