dave4
Member of DD Central
Cynical is a hobby not a lifestyle
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Post by dave4 on Dec 17, 2020 15:00:26 GMT
"I'm sure something like my bids and offers showing in 2 different colours to others would have a far better effect." Maybe if you are on the Ablerate good list??
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woodie
Member of DD Central
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Post by woodie on Dec 17, 2020 15:07:18 GMT
Maybe if you were on the Ablrate good list ... surely ?
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Dec 17, 2020 15:25:25 GMT
Who are these 'liquidity providers' and are they getting special trading facilities not available to liquidity removers? Which am I, or is it just a role we all play? Is 'liquidity provider' a euphemism for flipper?
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Post by Ace on Dec 17, 2020 15:42:25 GMT
Who are these 'liquidity providers' and are they getting special trading facilities not available to liquidity removers? Which am I, or is it just a role we all play? Is 'liquidity provider' a euphemism for flipper? I thought it was the tea lady person.
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Post by ablrate on Dec 17, 2020 15:59:10 GMT
Hi K6, What experiences are you having? We are happy to help, do email us to let us know. There is increased liquidity, increased trading, better filtering, it's 1000x faster, automated trading will be turned on very shortly for liquidity providers... so are you having technical issues? Why does 'automated trading will be turned on very shortly for liquidity providers' sound like something that I will not like very much? I'm sure something like my bids and offers showing in a different colours to others would have a far better effect. What's not to like? Liquidity providers automatically purchasing offers and bids beginning a massive push towards more liquidity for you.... As much as we have kept everything switched on (as much as we have been able to) many other platforms have either a) gone... or b) annoyed lenders as they have no liquidity to get their money... we are aiming to eradicate this as much as possible... Your wish is our command... something like this coming in the next release hopefully before Christmas:
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Dec 17, 2020 16:06:47 GMT
Why does 'automated trading will be turned on very shortly for liquidity providers' sound like something that I will not like very much? I'm sure something like my bids and offers showing in a different colours to others would have a far better effect. What's not to like? Liquidity providers automatically purchasing offers and bids beginning a massive push towards more liquidity for you.... As much as we have kept everything switched on (as much as we have been able to) many other platforms have either a) gone... or b) annoyed lenders as they have no liquidity to get their money... we are aiming to eradicate this as much as possible... Your wish is our command... something like this coming in the next release hopefully before Christmas: View AttachmentSecond bit looks good. First bit, might need a few (Lot) more details, otherwise I predict a riot. Damn.... Alexa play Kaiser Chiefs
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Post by ablrate on Dec 17, 2020 16:54:56 GMT
Who are these 'liquidity providers' and are they getting special trading facilities not available to liquidity removers? Which am I, or is it just a role we all play? Is 'liquidity provider' a euphemism for flipper? They are, in some cases, existing lenders. There are some lenders who do this now by sitting on the bids and offers of loans and have done for years, we are just making this a more formal thing with better tools. This initial phase is a basic trading algorithmic that can be offered to those willing to provide a decent level of liquidity to the Loan Exchange.
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Dec 17, 2020 18:15:40 GMT
Who are these 'liquidity providers' and are they getting special trading facilities not available to liquidity removers? Which am I, or is it just a role we all play? Is 'liquidity provider' a euphemism for flipper? They are, in some cases, existing lenders. There are some lenders who do this now by sitting on the bids and offers of loans and have done for years, we are just making this a more formal thing with better tools. This initial phase is a basic trading algorithmic that can be offered to those willing to provide a decent level of liquidity to the Loan Exchange. 'What's not to like' is a lack of transparency, irrespective of the perceived or real benefits. If we are participating in a market, we should know either that we are all equal or if not, what other classes of participants have been granted what special privileges. Some of us are old enough to remember the clandestine 'privilege club' and the underwriters who dumped the majority of a loan on the SM at a 5% discount and devalued our holdings for months. Have I missed an announcement about the 'liquidity providers' and the process by which one can evaluate the opportunity and apply to become one? I'm sure there must be more to this than providing flippers with official bots. Provision of liquidity is a good thing, as long as it is there at the time it is needed, and does not also provide the facility to get out quicker than the herd. But we ordinary punters have a right to know with whom were are playing, imo.
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boundah
Member of DD Central
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Post by boundah on Dec 17, 2020 18:27:05 GMT
Sorry to be controversial, but it may be easiest if we just assume there are no new loans in the pipeline until Ablrate tell us there are new loans in the pipeline.
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criston
Member of DD Central
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Post by criston on Dec 17, 2020 18:32:41 GMT
We will shortly be able to trade Ablrates announcements on ASMX, based on how many days hence they will come to fruition.
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IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
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Post by IFISAcava on Dec 17, 2020 18:48:46 GMT
We will shortly be able to trade Ablrates announcements on ASMX, based on how many days hence they will come to fruition. Isn't there going to be an Ablrate announcement crypto token specifically to facilitate such trading?
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macq
Member of DD Central
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Post by macq on Dec 17, 2020 18:49:30 GMT
Why does 'automated trading will be turned on very shortly for liquidity providers' sound like something that I will not like very much? I'm sure something like my bids and offers showing in a different colours to others would have a far better effect. What's not to like? Liquidity providers automatically purchasing offers and bids beginning a massive push towards more liquidity for you.... As much as we have kept everything switched on (as much as we have been able to) many other platforms have either a) gone... or b) annoyed lenders as they have no liquidity to get their money... we are aiming to eradicate this as much as possible... Your wish is our command... something like this coming in the next release hopefully before Christmas: View AttachmentMust admit unlike the old SM i have not got on with ASMX so have left it for now.But in your first line it says "liquidity providers purchasing offers and bids" should that not be purchasing offers and making bids or am i even more confused then i thought
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Dec 17, 2020 20:38:10 GMT
Must admit unlike the old SM i have not got on with ASMX so have left it for now.But in your first line it says "liquidity providers purchasing offers and bids" should that not be purchasing offers and making bids or am i even more confused then i thought I think it should be 'Liquidity providers automatically purchasing offers and making bids'. To cater for the case when a seller makes a silly mistake and underprices an offer. This should allow the liquidity provider to snap it up automatically before the seller can withdraw and correct, and the liquidity provider can then automatically offer it again at just below current offers. No need to raise a finger. I have had mistakes caught before by alert online traders and have said fair-dos - I would do the same. That would be less likely with the current system of automatic matching as there is usually bids at a level around the par/par for loan rate. I assume the chosen ones will have some sort of virtual bid/offer rates that track market movements (or outrageous claim of choice to elicit an answer) that are settled from a central fund. Certainly corrugating the playing field somewhat. Or it could just be a dumb buying machine like the early FC version, that might be acceptable.
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Post by ablrate on Dec 18, 2020 10:41:45 GMT
They are, in some cases, existing lenders. There are some lenders who do this now by sitting on the bids and offers of loans and have done for years, we are just making this a more formal thing with better tools. This initial phase is a basic trading algorithmic that can be offered to those willing to provide a decent level of liquidity to the Loan Exchange. 'What's not to like' is a lack of transparency, irrespective of the perceived or real benefits. If we are participating in a market, we should know either that we are all equal or if not, what other classes of participants have been granted what special privileges. Some of us are old enough to remember the clandestine 'privilege club' and the underwriters who dumped the majority of a loan on the SM at a 5% discount and devalued our holdings for months. Have I missed an announcement about the 'liquidity providers' and the process by which one can evaluate the opportunity and apply to become one? I'm sure there must be more to this than providing flippers with official bots. Provision of liquidity is a good thing, as long as it is there at the time it is needed, and does not also provide the facility to get out quicker than the herd. But we ordinary punters have a right to know with whom were are playing, imo.
Hi Blender. 1. There have never been a group of investors that could 'dump' loans at 5% discount. The 'pro-club' as we trialed for a while, got to see loans early, but never had a discount. If there were those people they would have lost a fortune and done everyone else a big favour. Underwriters do not get upfront fees, specifically for this reason and they are obliged (and technically forced) to sell at par for at least 30 days, after that the basic financials of the transaction make it unprofitable to sell at a discount. Out of £58 mn, around £1-£1.5 mn million has been underwritten. 2. At this time the liquidity providers are experienced customers who have a background in developing algorithms for trading for banks, so of course we will not be disclosing those lenders at this time, but they have be lenders for 4 years on Ablrate and have topped 10,000 trades in that time. When we have run with those lenders and the tools built for a while, we will be looking at how that has operated and either creating a product that can be rolled out to qualifying lenders or making it a professional tool only, it all depends on its performance. 3. The liquidity providers are, necessarily, more exposed than normal lenders as the bots trade on limited data (price, volume and credit profile) for the time being, whereas lenders have the ability to trade on subjective data (market is going bad, new pandemic is coming etc) and for this reason it has to be restricted to sophisticated lenders. In the future the bots will become smarter and add more data points which will, essentially make the pricing in the market better. The 'Efficient Market Theory' is at it basic level a hypothesis that a market price reflects all of the available information and as such the price is correct and if it moves from that equilibrium the arbitrage trading opportunities will bring that market back to the correct price. P2P loan prices are not efficient and price is an issue. For example, if Ablrate prices a loan at 13% and A.N Other platform prices the same company with the same security at 9% (which has been a real life scenario) how can that price be made efficient and reflect correctly for lenders? Basically a loan exchange trading both loans that has lenders who are doing their homework and bots who can analyze all available data and price the liquidity at the correct level. The trading in a loan exchange in this manner will force better pricing of loans against risk... For example, lets say the above example is correctly priced at 12%. A loan priced at 9% would essentially only have liquidity bid a discount to increase the returns for incoming investors who believe they need 12% for that risk. At 13% lenders may be able to sell at a premium because incoming lenders are happy with a 12% return. It won't be too long before pricing on all connected platforms becomes better.. i.e better due diligence, better information etc. It may be a lofty goal, but that is essentially where P2P needs to get.
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Post by ablrate on Dec 18, 2020 10:54:59 GMT
I think it should be 'Liquidity providers automatically purchasing offers and making bids'. To cater for the case when a seller makes a silly mistake and underprices an offer. This should allow the liquidity provider to snap it up automatically before the seller can withdraw and correct, and the liquidity provider can then automatically offer it again at just below current offers. No need to raise a finger. I have had mistakes caught before by alert online traders and have said fair-dos - I would do the same. That would be less likely with the current system of automatic matching as there is usually bids at a level around the par/par for loan rate. I assume the chosen ones will have some sort of virtual bid/offer rates that track market movements (or outrageous claim of choice to elicit an answer) that are settled from a central fund. Certainly corrugating the playing field somewhat. Or it could just be a dumb buying machine like the early FC version, that might be acceptable. As above it is essentially a basic buy/sell algo right now that will get smarter over time with more data points and basic AI.
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