keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on May 1, 2021 16:33:10 GMT
Talking to a couple of retired friends today
A) Saved money and owns his house and has a private pension of £75 a week, plus his state pension, ( so a total of £250) And pays £13 a week of his council tax bill so has £237 left, pays his own heating bill.
B) Rents a house, no private pension, get his state pension of £175, Gets his entire Council tax paid, Gets his rent paid, and gets £3 a week in minimum pension guarantee. Anything goes wrong in house, calls the council they fix it. The council have a big boiler attached to the flats and the heating is included in the rent, but still gets the extra from government when its cold.
So basically A's saving into a pension and owning a house means he is £60 a week better off but is responsible for his own heating and repairs.
IMHO all pensioners should qualify for the cold weather payments not just those on benefits.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 2, 2021 7:35:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 15:41:09 GMT
fair or unfair is a judgement of Paris and a waste of time.
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corto
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one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on May 2, 2021 16:01:10 GMT
fair or unfair is a judgement of Paris and a waste of time. Not sure it's a waste of time - people sit in the cold.
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 2, 2021 16:33:22 GMT
Talking to a couple of retired friends today A) Saved money and owns his house and has a private pension of £75 a week, plus his state pension, ( so a total of £250) And pays £13 a week of his council tax bill so has £237 left, pays his own heating bill. B) Rents a house, no private pension, get his state pension of £175, Gets his entire Council tax paid, Gets his rent paid, and gets £3 a week in minimum pension guarantee. Anything goes wrong in house, calls the council they fix it. The council have a big boiler attached to the flats and the heating is included in the rent, but still gets the extra from government when its cold. So basically A's saving into a pension and owning a house means he is £60 a week better off but is responsible for his own heating and repairs. IMHO all pensioners should qualify for the cold weather payments not just those on benefits.I'm not sure what cold weather payments you mean, but as pensioners on no benefits we get the one off cold weather payment. About £100? always comes as a bit of a nice surprise.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2021 18:28:57 GMT
My point is this is not about fairness, it is about need. We are not Victorians any more.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 2, 2021 19:39:30 GMT
Talking to a couple of retired friends today A) Saved money and owns his house and has a private pension of £75 a week, plus his state pension, ( so a total of £250) And pays £13 a week of his council tax bill so has £237 left, pays his own heating bill. B) Rents a house, no private pension, get his state pension of £175, Gets his entire Council tax paid, Gets his rent paid, and gets £3 a week in minimum pension guarantee. Anything goes wrong in house, calls the council they fix it. The council have a big boiler attached to the flats and the heating is included in the rent, but still gets the extra from government when its cold. So basically A's saving into a pension and owning a house means he is £60 a week better off but is responsible for his own heating and repairs. IMHO all pensioners should qualify for the cold weather payments not just those on benefits. There is also the thing whether someone has spent their money in the past on big holidays abroad etc, and now are broke and needing support, when other people have been careful with their money and probably now wish they have squandered it to get the benefits. In my family there were people who worked all their lives in not very well paid jobs, and some who rarely worked at all, the ones who worked hard seemed to come off worse.
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JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on May 3, 2021 10:01:44 GMT
My point is this is not about fairness, it is about need. We are not Victorians any more. Those who have spent every available pound during their entire working lives with no thought for the future need to be supported in their later years by the tax paying members of the population. That is what socialism is all about.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 3, 2021 10:22:57 GMT
My point is this is not about fairness, it is about need. We are not Victorians any more. Those who have spent every available pound during their entire working lives with no thought for the future need to be supported in their later years by the tax paying members of the population. That is what socialism is all about. Let the feckless poor die on the streets!
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on May 3, 2021 10:53:35 GMT
No but have a real national insurance system instead so opting out isn't a choice with no penalties.
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sd2
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Post by sd2 on May 3, 2021 11:15:32 GMT
Those who have spent every available pound during their entire working lives with no thought for the future need to be supported in their later years by the tax paying members of the population. That is what socialism is all about. Let the feckless poor die on the streets! They are poor because they are feckless. Thats a personal choice. While some working class have saved for there retirement and are now being punished for it. You appear to be happy with that outcome.
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 4, 2021 16:44:21 GMT
My point is this is not about fairness, it is about need. We are not Victorians any more. Those who have spent every available pound during their entire working lives with no thought for the future need to be supported in their later years by the tax paying members of the population. That is what socialism is all about. When it becomes why should I bother to work at all (or save any money) because I'll get looked after anyway, it's gone too far. Of course it all rather falls to pieces if 'everyone' decides they really don't fancy working or intend to spend, spend, spend (feel a bit like doing that myself  ). Why not, 10 years of the highlife and then the state will provide.
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on May 4, 2021 17:24:46 GMT
My point is this is not about fairness, it is about need. We are not Victorians any more. Those who have spent every available pound during their entire working lives with no thought for the future need to be supported in their later years by the tax paying members of the population. That is what socialism is all about. That's only half of the Socialist Creed. The full version is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" (this was drafted before gender defaults were banned). If it could be made to work on a national scale it would indeed be Utopia, but so far nobody has worked out how to achieve the first part. It is contrary to human nature (at a large scale).
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 4, 2021 19:24:43 GMT
Those who have spent every available pound during their entire working lives with no thought for the future need to be supported in their later years by the tax paying members of the population. That is what socialism is all about. That's only half of the Socialist Creed. The full version is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" (this was drafted before gender defaults were banned). If it could be made to work on a national scale it would indeed be Utopia, but so far nobody has worked out how to achieve the first part. It is contrary to human nature (at a large scale). I was absolutely into true 'communism' (when young and idealistic) we all work, we all get paid the same whatever we do, those who can't work also get the same. Unfortunately this is never going to happen, as long as people think they or their work is more important than other peoples forget it. And then I grew up!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 4, 2021 20:00:48 GMT
Those who have spent every available pound during their entire working lives with no thought for the future need to be supported in their later years by the tax paying members of the population. That is what socialism is all about. When it becomes why should I bother to work at all (or save any money) because I'll get looked after anyway, it's gone too far. Of course it all rather falls to pieces if 'everyone' decides they really don't fancy working or intend to spend, spend, spend (feel a bit like doing that myself ). Why not, 10 years of the highlife and then the state will provide. If you're happy with passing your entire life on a bare-bones basic subsistence income, living in social housing, constantly trying not to get sanctioned from even receiving that... feel free. Most people work because they would actually prefer to have a bit more in their life. A pensioner on pension credit gets their rent covered, council tax covered, and £177/week. £270/week for a couple. It's not exactly the lap of luxury, is it? And here we are, begrudging them £25/week when the average temperature is below freezing for seven days on the trot. Keith's friend A can call on equity release from his home if he hits hard times. He can choose his own care home if ever he needs it. He may have something to leave his family on his death. Keith's friend B has none of that. He lives hand-to-mouth. If he needs care, he goes into whichever one the local authority will fund. If he has more than £20k saved up, then that will part-fund his care.
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). Why not, 10 years of the highlife and then the state will provide.