ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jul 6, 2021 12:16:50 GMT
I have to travel for work including several international flights per year. How (and why) should I be taxed? Why because It's contributing to global warming. You missed the point. The OP's position was that I should be taxed (n.b. not the ticket). That could mean (in theory at least) that if I travel for business, my one pleasure flight of the year is taxed more than yours. By all means tax the ticket - my employer then has to pick up the tab if they still want me to go. However, that needs to be on a level playing field EU (and UK) wide, on an equal basis with other forms of transport.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 6, 2021 15:34:49 GMT
Why because It's contributing to global warming. You missed the point. The OP's position was that I should be taxed (n.b. not the ticket). That could mean (in theory at least) that if I travel for business, my one pleasure flight of the year is taxed more than yours. By all means tax the ticket - my employer then has to pick up the tab if they still want me to go. However, that needs to be on a level playing field EU (and UK) wide, on an equal basis with other forms of transport. LOL I am the OP, There would have to be something for necessary business travel, but you in a plane with 200 others isn't really the issue, Someone taking a private jet to a climate conference is much more an issue.1-2 flights a year OK, flying 100's of tonnes of metal around the world for F1 racing not good
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 6, 2021 15:53:26 GMT
but you in a plane with 200 others isn't really the issue, Someone taking a private jet to a climate conference is much more an issue Cobblers. How many private jet flights are made for climate conferences? A tiny number. How many commercial airliner flights are made? A huge number. 4.5 billion commercial passenger boardings per year, pre-Covid. 54% short-haul, <3hr, 780km/480 mile average. Saying "But private jet to climate conference" is an insignificant hand-wavey excuse not to do anything about the REAL causes.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Jul 6, 2021 17:39:30 GMT
but you in a plane with 200 others isn't really the issue, Someone taking a private jet to a climate conference is much more an issue Cobblers. How many private jet flights are made for climate conferences? A tiny number. How many commercial airliner flights are made? A huge number. 4.5 billion commercial passenger boardings per year, pre-Covid. 54% short-haul, <3hr, 780km/480 mile average. Saying "But private jet to climate conference" is an insignificant hand-wavey excuse not to do anything about the REAL causes. it is in terms of emissions per mile. The question is why short haul. We both know the flights from north wales to Cardiff are mainly for the benefit of AMs. But sometimes flights within the UK were and probably still are cheaper than other forms of transport, but as you say too often it's journeys that don't need to be made. At one point there was a Scottish MP who drove the 400 Miles to London and back every week, why Simples as an MP he can claim £1 per mile ( tax free cos MPs put it into the tax laws when the rest of us were restricted to 40P for a limited amount of miles ). But then why do people still think it's ok to fly to Greece or wherever for a weekend. indeed those that fly 4 hours to lay on a sunbed all day and then drink John Smiths or fosters and eat Fish and chips or a sunday roast, that is a total waste.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 6, 2021 18:00:37 GMT
Cobblers. How many private jet flights are made for climate conferences? A tiny number. How many commercial airliner flights are made? A huge number. 4.5 billion commercial passenger boardings per year, pre-Covid. 54% short-haul, <3hr, 780km/480 mile average. Saying "But private jet to climate conference" is an insignificant hand-wavey excuse not to do anything about the REAL causes. it is in terms of emissions per mile. The question is why short haul. We both know the flights from north wales to Cardiff are mainly for the benefit of AMs. But sometimes flights within the UK were and probably still are cheaper than other forms of transport, but as you say too often it's journeys that don't need to be made. At one point there was a Scottish MP who drove the 400 Miles to London and back every week, why Simples as an MP he can claim £1 per mile ( tax free cos MPs put it into the tax laws when the rest of us were restricted to 40P for a limited amount of miles ). But then why do people still think it's ok to fly to Greece or wherever for a weekend. indeed those that fly 4 hours to lay on a sunbed all day and then drink John Smiths or fosters and eat Fish and chips or a sunday roast, that is a total waste.I I don't know if you want to stop people spending their money how they want to if so we are drifting into a state controlled Country. Who is or is not allowed to travel and where are specific people allowed to travel to and for how long? If you can pay extra to travel is that fair? Then more wealthy people can travel easily and less wealthy not? I haven't ever gone to Greece for a weekend, actually rarely travelled abroad apart from work (no particular reason, just hasn't happened), but probably used a lot of miles in the UK for holidays.
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Post by mfaxford on Jul 6, 2021 21:43:19 GMT
I remember a story about a company network throwing major issues on a Monday, eventually an engineer was dispatched from the UK head office, on arrival in the UAE he discovered the local team had been instructed by management to tidy up the untidy network cabinet . the whole lot had been reorganised so that port 1 of switch 1 went to Outlet 1, port 2 of switch 1 went to Outlet 2 and so on. I'd argue that's how it should have been done from the start. I've swapped out enough network switches in the past to know that it's much easier to work with when things are neat and patched sensibly. Working with the usual rats-nest of cables you often find is just a pain. The best setup I worked on had the majority using 30cm patch leads from the patch panel to a switch directly above/below (just the odd things needing something special had a longer cable). I'd also argue that there should be a local person to deal with simple networking tasks. If there's enough networking to become untidy then there's probably enough moves and changes that you don't want to fly someone out each time.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 7, 2021 6:42:55 GMT
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jul 7, 2021 7:39:51 GMT
Those are at least helping people not do things that are bad for them. I know, we should be thinking of the good of the planet, no foreign holidays for your average Joe, only the wealthy should be jetting about. But some sort of personal air miles limit would be much fairer. One family can have their fortnight in Spain and another can have their weekend in Greece and that's it for the year.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jul 7, 2021 8:02:59 GMT
You missed the point. The OP's position was that I should be taxed (n.b. not the ticket). That could mean (in theory at least) that if I travel for business, my one pleasure flight of the year is taxed more than yours. By all means tax the ticket - my employer then has to pick up the tab if they still want me to go. However, that needs to be on a level playing field EU (and UK) wide, on an equal basis with other forms of transport. LOL I am the OP, There would have to be something for necessary business travel, but you in a plane with 200 others isn't really the issue, Someone taking a private jet to a climate conference is much more an issue.1-2 flights a year OK, flying 100's of tonnes of metal around the world for F1 racing not good It might be slightly OT, but given that F1 is something I know a thing or two about I wanted to respond to the last part of your comment. All F1 teams now ship a significant quantity of freight by sea to reduce the quantity sent by air. All tyres are sent by seafreight. All teams are only allowed to bring a restricted number of people to the track which has reduced the number of personnel flying to each event. F1 testing (where teams used to cover more mileage than they did in races) is now significantly restricted. When you look at the employment that is created by the sport and the technology transfer into more mainstream applications, the sport is far more green than you might otherwise believe.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 7, 2021 8:07:38 GMT
Umm, I don't know if you've noticed, but that's EXACTLY what alcohol duty, tobacco duty, drugs control laws, etc etc etc are all about. Those are at least helping people not do things that are bad for them. I know, we should be thinking of the good of the planet CO2-banded VED and fuel duty?
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toffeeboy
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Post by toffeeboy on Jul 7, 2021 13:41:59 GMT
LOL I am the OP, There would have to be something for necessary business travel, but you in a plane with 200 others isn't really the issue, Someone taking a private jet to a climate conference is much more an issue.1-2 flights a year OK, flying 100's of tonnes of metal around the world for F1 racing not good It might be slightly OT, but given that F1 is something I know a thing or two about I wanted to respond to the last part of your comment. All F1 teams now ship a significant quantity of freight by sea to reduce the quantity sent by air. All tyres are sent by seafreight. All teams are only allowed to bring a restricted number of people to the track which has reduced the number of personnel flying to each event. F1 testing (where teams used to cover more mileage than they did in races) is now significantly restricted. When you look at the employment that is created by the sport and the technology transfer into more mainstream applications, the sport is far more green than you might otherwise believe. It also needs mentioning about the amount of work that has been put into the hybrid engines that has passed through to road cars. The use of hybrid engines in F1 pushes the boundaries of the engines far past what is required by a road car, the engine suppliers then work to transfer F1 technologies to road cars.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2021 14:37:06 GMT
It is hard to imagine how we can or should thank those companies who have supported and helped the oil companies bring our planet to this dangerous position. It could be claimed that the likes of BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari were ignorant of the dangers. It could but it would be tough. Mrs T stood up and talked about it in 1990 at the UN. So if the leaders of these great companies were so dumb that they missed that maybe there was no green party. In Germany the green party was founded in 1993. In Italy in 1990 by the joining together of two other parties.
So these companies knew and did sweet FA for years
I am glad that they are moving to electrical cars.
I genuinly despise them for taking 32 years about it.
Car racing just empowered the oil companies to do it.
If their owning companies were great engineers or great business men there would be no Tesla. Note Tesla managed a whole new product concept in less than 19 years. It might not be the one I wanted but I am less than impressed by the other companies.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Jul 7, 2021 15:40:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2021 15:44:41 GMT
1887-1897 was one of the most pivotal periods in the planet's history. The whole diesel internal combustion engine and the steam turbine all became practical tools then. It was also the time that BSI was born out of city standards. Before then we had Birmingham or Coventry etc standards for everything.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jul 7, 2021 15:48:26 GMT
Note Tesla managed a whole new product concept in less than 19 years.
Umm, not really. Tesla weren't founded until 2003 (Musk's involvement started with investment money in 2004, although a 2009 lawsuit allows him to call himself a "founder"), and didn't get anything on the market until the Lotus Elise-based Roadster in 2008. However, PSA had electric versions of various models - from the C15 van and AX through the Saxo and 106 - on the roads of France from the late 1980s onwards. You could walk into a Citroen showroom in many countries - including the UK - in the late 90s and pick up a brochure on the production version of the electric Berlingo van, and place an order... Even that wasn't exactly new-new. Plenty of previous electric cars had existed - Porsche's first 4wd petrol-electric hybrid hit the roads in 1900, while the first six official world land-speed records were set by electric cars. Even if you say "well, what about big modern purpose-designed four-door saloon BEVs...", then let's not forget the Fisker Karma was in production a year before the Model S, with nearly 2,500 cars built before the battery supplier went bankrupt and took the company down. Yes, it had a petrol range-extender, like the BMW i3 REx or the Chevrolet Volt (both launched in 2013, a year after the Model S), but - like them - motion was actually provided solely by electricity, with the petrol engine purely being used for charging.
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