dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Sept 6, 2021 21:40:01 GMT
Ripple Energy are promoting their second wind farm, plus a Seedr Convertible fund raising round.
Anyone invested in the first one? Any experiences are their processes to date? I gather the first farm isn't yet live.
Does giving them £4K over the next 12 months to get £7.4K back in electricity bill discounts over the next 20 years ever make economic sense?
I guess a lot depends on assumptions over future electricity prices?
Yes, I know some of us don't have a great experience with Wind turbines...
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Sept 6, 2021 22:36:45 GMT
Yes, I know some of us don't have a great experience with Wind turbines...
*shudders* If you have the space I'd sooner put the 4k towards my own electricity generation: either solar or wind, I'd expect to save more than 7k (even if prices don't rise) over 20 years in that case. *Edit: you may need more than 4k, but IMV if you have a half decently aligned roof it's still likely to be a better prospect
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archie
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Post by archie on Sept 7, 2021 6:46:46 GMT
Buying 'wind' would be similar to some P2P investments
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2021 6:53:07 GMT
If you bought TRIG at the next funding round it would cost you about 110p and you would earn roughly 5% dividend (probably/possibly). You do the maths.
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easynow
Member of DD Central
Popcorn anyone?
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Post by easynow on Sept 7, 2021 8:46:10 GMT
I invest in Ripple (seedrs) as I like the idea and feel many will invest in the product, but i dont subscribe to the service myself.
As energy prices increase, the value of your own system has to be worth the investment, failing that there are other vehicles out there if you are feeling that way inclined.
The return works out at just over 3%p.a compounded, these are some of the funds I invest in with their returns:
Greencoat UK wind 5.35% Bluefield Solar 8.35% Foresight Solar 6.85%
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Sept 7, 2021 10:01:22 GMT
Yes, I know some of us don't have a great experience with Wind turbines...
*shudders* If you have the space I'd sooner put the 4k towards my own electricity generation: either solar or wind, I'd expect to save more than 7k (even if prices don't rise) over 20 years in that case. *Edit: you may need more than 4k, but IMV if you have a half decently aligned roof it's still likely to be a better prospect My roof is badly aligned ( the ridge runs almost north south ) my return ( on panels plus a battery ) is 12% so far over just short of 2 years but is nearly 7% this year due to higher prices
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dead-money
Rocket to the Moon
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Post by dead-money on Sept 7, 2021 12:25:35 GMT
Thanks Folks,
It does seem that the return from a share of a Co-Op Wind farm, is in the range of 2 or 3% per annum at best, so not a stellar return for what's not a protected investment and similar to other Social investments such as Solar for Schools.
I suppose tying the investment return of capital into your own electricity bills complicates matters, but may have tax advantages compared to receiving a dividend ?
Ripple themselves are just a facilitator for Wind and Solar projects, not a generator nor supplier, so need to look at what their exit strategy from repeated ECF rounds might be.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Sept 7, 2021 14:32:39 GMT
If you bought TRIG at the next funding round it would cost you about 110p and you would earn roughly 5% dividend (probably/possibly). You do the maths. I bought about 1K worth of these shares almost 6 months ago. Join me in losing money if you have more money than sense or avoid like I wish I had done.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Sept 7, 2021 14:49:40 GMT
The shares that Bobo promotes were selling for 128 per share in June. Now we are being encouraged to buy these shares and told that 110 per share is a "good" price. Why are forumites being encouraged to buy these shares when the offer price is on a downward trend?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2021 15:16:33 GMT
I'm absolutely not pushing these shares, I am saying that they are green energy shares and prices go up or down. The divi though is pretty stable and the NVA is pretty stable. You make your own decisions as to when to buy and what you pay for them.
No advice, just opinions
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Sept 7, 2021 16:23:59 GMT
I'm absolutely not pushing these shares, I am saying that they are green energy shares and prices go up or down. The divi though is pretty stable and the NVA is pretty stable. You make your own decisions as to when to buy and what you pay for them.
No advice, just opinions
Bobo and others directed me towards some shares recently, I took the advice and bought into some which have done OK , my investment in Tern is up 17% in 6 weeks, Vestas Wind 10% over the same time scale, TRIG is down 2.5%. I don't invest for short term profits, although must admit to taking a silly 15% profit in 1 day on one share
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Post by overthehill on Sept 7, 2021 16:58:48 GMT
Do not invest in any kind renewable energy project unless you understand fully the reasons why past projects have gone belly up leaving investors with very little, too many pitfalls and external influences to even start listing. If you are determined then diversify, don't put it all in the waste to energy project promising fantastic returns. One problem I believe is the pie in the sky valuations based on predicted future net income.
Just as a note, I discovered that you can indeed drill hydrogen straight out of the ground just like natural gas and oil so be wary of marketing that says hydrogen isn't a viable competitive renewable because it will be too expensive to produce from methane or water. It is very early days but it has been known about for about decade and there could be very large quantities just about everywhere in the world.
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corto
Member of DD Central
one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on Sept 7, 2021 17:58:49 GMT
For diversification check the various ETFs around, eg ENER, INRG, ICLN, ECAR, HTWG, .. There is a lot of variance and very different performance across these. It's quite certain though that on the long run there must be growth.
TRIG is actually not bad compared with some of them.
Picking individual companies seems pure betting to me atm.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2021 14:24:11 GMT
I'm absolutely not pushing these shares, I am saying that they are green energy shares and prices go up or down. The divi though is pretty stable and the NVA is pretty stable. You make your own decisions as to when to buy and what you pay for them.
No advice, just opinions
Hi, I've been pretty busy today so time to get back around the table.
TRIG owns a bunch of assets and just skims about ~1% off the NVA of all those assets for management costs. The assets are solar and wind across UK and continental Europe The share price is what people are prepared to sell or buy it for The company infrequently goes to the market for new funds to buy new assets and normally prices the new funding at half way between the NVA and Sp. So when the Sp is above NVA there is a chance the Sp will be dragged down due to a funding and if the Sp is below the NVA the Sp would be dragged up due to the funding. The figure of "a half" can be changed but seldom is. There is little public notification of a funding round
As a result of all this malarky buying in the region of 130 when the NVA ia 104p means you are likely to be disappointed by a funding or rumour of a funding.
Dividends also move the Sp
This share is unlikely to be interesting to people who want capital gains unless bought after a stock market crash where the Sp will drop below the NVA. It is more interesting from a divi earning point of view and for those interested in Green energy and the potential for the likes of Shell to want to hoover up some green credentials.
On the other hand it a useful indicator of what is happening in the overall green energy field
BTW on H2 generation, we are in the same situation now as we were 15 years ago with solar, back then solar energy was expensive but once volumes exploded the price per kWh dropped drastically (I was in that industry at the time) and prices are now lower than fossil fuel generators in nearly all cases. The situation with H2 will go through the same change and will be very cheap. Companies like ITM have annually modified their products/processes to hit prices that agree with EU and US expectations of £/kg.
I have no confidence that multiple very large H2 or Helium fields exist. I'm happy to be found wrong. I do accept that small pockets do exist, but once gone are gone. I heard the same story many years ago about immense fields of oil underground and that was hockum too.
I too do not invest for short term gain though I admit to selling Nikola after 24 hours for 100% profit at IPO
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Post by overthehill on Sept 8, 2021 14:39:54 GMT
I'm absolutely not pushing these shares, I am saying that they are green energy shares and prices go up or down. The divi though is pretty stable and the NVA is pretty stable. You make your own decisions as to when to buy and what you pay for them.
No advice, just opinions
Hi, I've been pretty busy today so time to get back around the table.
TRIG owns a bunch of assets and just skims about ~1% off the NVA of all those assets for management costs. The assets are solar and wind across UK and continental Europe The share price is what people are prepared to sell or buy it for The company infrequently goes to the market for new funds to buy new assets and normally prices the new funding at half way between the NVA and Sp. So when the Sp is above NVA there is a chance the Sp will be dragged down due to a funding and if the Sp is below the NVA the Sp would be dragged up due to the funding. The figure of "a half" can be changed but seldom is. There is little public notification of a funding round
As a result of all this malarky buying in the region of 130 when the NVA ia 104p means you are likely to be disappointed by a funding or rumour of a funding.
Dividends also move the Sp
This share is unlikely to be interesting to people who want capital gains unless bought after a stock market crash where the Sp will drop below the NVA. It is more interesting from a divi earning point of view and for those interested in Green energy and the potential for the likes of Shell to want to hoover up some green credentials.
On the other hand it a useful indicator of what is happening in the overall green energy field
BTW on H2 generation, we are in the same situation now as we were 15 years ago with solar, back then solar energy was expensive but once volumes exploded the price per kWh dropped drastically (I was in that industry at the time) and prices are now lower than fossil fuel generators in nearly all cases. The situation with H2 will go through the same change and will be very cheap. Companies like ITM have annually modified their products/processes to hit prices that agree with EU and US expectations of £/kg.
I have no confidence that multiple very large H2 or Helium fields exist. I'm happy to found wrong. I do accept that small pockets do exist, but once gone are gone. I heard the same many years ago about immense fields of oil underground and that was hockum too.
I too do not invest for short term gain though I admit to selling Nikola after 24 hours for 100% profit at IPO
NVA ? NAV
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