adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 9, 2021 17:11:40 GMT
Apart from the minor detail that, without a court testing the evidence, you don't KNOW that they HAVE "shown nothing but contempt for our laws", you appear to be proposing a slippery slope to vigilante executions in the street. Relying on laws is one of the most fundamental cornerstones of our civilisation. Even when courts have tested the evidence, miscarriages of justice have occurred in the past - resulting in the innocent spending years in prison for things they simply didn't do. Guildford, Woolwich... So using this logic you would say that Fred West and Jimmy Savile were innocent? I have no idea whether a court would have convicted or not. I haven't seen the evidence. I strongly suspect it would have done. But since West died by his own hand while awaiting trial, and Savile died of natural causes before the allegations of his behaviour were raised by the judicial system, there's really no parallel with whether somebody who is alive should be tried by a court or simply by public opinion.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 9, 2021 17:12:55 GMT
Ive heard it mention that she was below the age of consent at the age of 15 Consent for what? The age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 9, 2021 17:23:56 GMT
Ive heard it mention that she was below the age of consent at the age of 15
However in other major European countries the age of consent is lower for example France is 15 and Germany is even lower at 14.
My view is that she should not be allowed to come back to this country ever .
Why would we want to take a chance that she is radicalised and kills or injures a British citizen ....lifes a bitch and have no sympathy towards her whatsoever...she is a traitor to this country and it would be an insult to all the families of those who lost loved ones through the barbarism of ISIS and I dont know why we are even giving her publicity on this forum
What about monsters like the Yorkshire Ripper and Mira Hindyley. Should they be stripped of their citizenship ? Personally I'd have liked to see them hang....as british citizens.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 9, 2021 17:37:13 GMT
So using this logic you would say that Fred West and Jimmy Savile were innocent? I have no idea whether a court would have convicted or not. I haven't seen the evidence. I strongly suspect it would have done. But since West died by his own hand while awaiting trial, and Savile died of natural causes before the allegations of his behaviour were raised by the judicial system, there's really no parallel with whether somebody who is alive should be tried by a court or simply by public opinion. I disagree. The principle is the same, their case never went to court, so according to your logic they cannot be considered guilty.
But if you want to stick to living people consider the catholic church. Hundreds of thousands of children have been abused by catholic priests. A recent report in France suggested that over 300,000 children were affected in that country alone. Nobody has been prosecuted for these crimes, and french law dictates that the perpetrators are too old to stand trial. Should we consider these people to be innocent until proven guilty?
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Post by martin44 on Oct 9, 2021 18:52:06 GMT
Why the hell would anyone want the likes of Begum back here in the UK... she made her choice's and she should now face the consequences of those choices.. the uk is a far better and safer place without her or any other isis sympathiser like her... good riddance to bad rubbish IMO.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 9, 2021 22:28:02 GMT
But if you want to stick to living people consider the catholic church. Hundreds of thousands of children have been abused by catholic priests. A recent report in France suggested that over 300,000 children were affected in that country alone. Nobody has been prosecuted for these crimes, and french law dictates that the perpetrators are too old to stand trial. Should we consider these people to be innocent until proven guilty?
Not the perpetrators - the cases are too old. The French statutes of limitations were extended from 20 years to 30 for cases of rape against a minor in 2018. And, yes, we should. Because until a court finds them guilty beyond reasonable doubt, they are innocent legally... No matter how strong the evidence, no matter how repugnant the crimes. If the judicial system is OK to go outside the law because knee-jerk, where does it stop? <glares in Priti Vacant's direction>
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Oct 10, 2021 9:24:16 GMT
But if you want to stick to living people consider the catholic church. Hundreds of thousands of children have been abused by catholic priests. A recent report in France suggested that over 300,000 children were affected in that country alone. Nobody has been prosecuted for these crimes, and french law dictates that the perpetrators are too old to stand trial. Should we consider these people to be innocent until proven guilty?
Not the perpetrators - the cases are too old. The French statutes of limitations were extended from 20 years to 30 for cases of rape against a minor in 2018. And, yes, we should. Because until a court finds them guilty beyond reasonable doubt, they are innocent legally... No matter how strong the evidence, no matter how repugnant the crimes. If the judicial system is OK to go outside the law because knee-jerk, where does it stop? <glares in Priti Vacant's direction> Ok, so to take this one step further, are you saying we should stop detaining people on remand, pending their trials? Do you believe that suspected murderers and rapists should be allowed to freely wander the streets until they have been convicted?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 10, 2021 9:39:40 GMT
Not the perpetrators - the cases are too old. The French statutes of limitations were extended from 20 years to 30 for cases of rape against a minor in 2018. And, yes, we should. Because until a court finds them guilty beyond reasonable doubt, they are innocent legally... No matter how strong the evidence, no matter how repugnant the crimes. If the judicial system is OK to go outside the law because knee-jerk, where does it stop? <glares in Priti Vacant's direction> Ok, so to take this one step further, are you saying we should stop detaining people on remand, pending their trials? Do you believe that suspected murderers and rapists should be allowed to freely wander the streets until they have been convicted? You are SO going to have to explain that leap of logic to me...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2021 13:28:35 GMT
A little history
I think we have fed the Hungry Bear enough now.
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Post by df on Oct 10, 2021 16:04:35 GMT
Why they can't disclose this information to us, the public, is a mystery to me, but I do believe it exists. The answer is simple - because they don't have any credible evidence. Otherwise they would've brought her back to the UK and tried her. It is more convenient for the government to break the law than to face a failure in convicting her.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Oct 10, 2021 17:47:43 GMT
Too many confusing could and should. She can and has due to her actions not being conducive to the public good ( as deemed by the Home Office). Legally binding despite being born in the UK.
Whether she should is pretty fanciful and probably depends on your personal experience of the all present threat of terrorism here and abroad.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Oct 10, 2021 19:44:58 GMT
Perhaps we need an island where we ( ie the civilised countries of the world could place these peoeple )
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Oct 10, 2021 20:03:26 GMT
Perhaps we need an island where we ( ie the civilised countries of the world could place these peoeple ) My Dad was very keen on sending people to South Georgia but he was from Northern Canada and was fond of cold places.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 10, 2021 20:11:46 GMT
As I say if that's how you feel (I don't) why not execute them ? Begum might end up living to fight another day where she is now....
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Oct 10, 2021 21:00:05 GMT
They do, but she is only a minor female character that is in the public eye and seeks empathy for her unfortunate situation.
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