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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 13, 2022 22:05:16 GMT
I'm really concerned that Russia and/or China might take advantage of the sudden and significant loss of experience and expertise at the most senior levels of our armed forces. It appears that in a single day -- indeed in the space of only a few hours - we have managed to lose or 'clear out' at least the following:
The Colonel of the Grenadier Guards
Honorary air commodore of RAF Lossiemouth
Colonel-in-chief of the Royal Irish Regiment
Colonel-in-chief of the Small Arms School Corps
Colonel-in-chief of The Royal Lancers (Queen Elizabeth's Own)
Colonel-in-chief of the Yorkshire Regiment
Commodore-in-Chief of the Fleet Air Arm
Royal colonel of the Royal Highland Fusiliers
Royal colonel of the Royal Regiment of Scotland.
I also have it on good authority that a Vice Admiral is also only just hanging in there by the tips of his fingers.
This kind of clear out is unprecedented in modern British military history. Is it a clear out - even maybe a purge ?? - of our most senior military personnel. What IS going on ?? A prelude to a coup perhaps ? I think we need to be told
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jan 13, 2022 22:08:31 GMT
A prelude to a coup perhaps ? I think we need to be told Or, in modern parlance, "right sizing". aka "post Brexit global Britain".
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 13, 2022 23:31:28 GMT
I think we've discovered the problem.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 15, 2022 15:51:09 GMT
Sounds good and I wish they would continue to downsize.
We are a dot compared to China and Russia and like most of the rest of the west get our protection from the US and Nato.
Why is it we need to pay for a significant military and nuclear force when large parts of wealthy Europe do not. Just at random I'm thinking Swizerland, Sweden and the nordics, Ireland etc. Even Germany and France do not pay as much as we do towards Nato.
By paying for such a force, it not only prevents expenditure elsewhere (NHS ?) but also makes us more of a target and more likely to poke our noses into other's affairs (Iraq, Afghanistan - how much did thy cost in young British lives ?? One is too many)
To me the armed forces are a throwback and exist to make the PM, the foreign secretary and all embassy staff around the world feel more important.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 15, 2022 16:15:50 GMT
We are a dot compared to China and Russia and like most of the rest of the west get our protection from the US and Nato. Why is it we need to pay for a significant military and nuclear force when large parts of wealthy Europe do not. Just at random I'm thinking Swizerland, Sweden and the nordics, Ireland etc. Even Germany and France do not pay as much as we do towards Nato. Actually, that's not true... NATO membership requires 2% GDP to be spent on defence. NATO membership itself is relatively low-cost - 0.3% of defence expenditure goes from the members to NATO itself, to pay for the admin, because NATOs forces are provided by individual national militaries. The UK spends 2.2% of GDP on defence, France 2.1%, Norway 1.95%, Italy 1.6%, Germany 1.4%, Sweden 1.25%, EU average 1.6%. Switzerland isn't a NATO member, and spends very little (0.7% GDP) on its military - because of its long standing neutrality. Ireland... 0.3%. Not a NATO member. Elsewhere in the world, Russia - 4.3%, Ukraine - 4.1%, US - 3.7%, Israel - 5.7%, Saudi - 8.4%, Australia - 2.1%...
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 15, 2022 16:25:07 GMT
We are a dot compared to China and Russia and like most of the rest of the west get our protection from the US and Nato. Why is it we need to pay for a significant military and nuclear force when large parts of wealthy Europe do not. Just at random I'm thinking Swizerland, Sweden and the nordics, Ireland etc. Even Germany and France do not pay as much as we do towards Nato. Actually, that's not true... NATO membership requires 2% GDP to be spent on defence. NATO membership itself is relatively low-cost - 0.3% of defence expenditure goes from the members to NATO itself, to pay for the admin, because NATOs forces are provided by individual national militaries. The UK spends 2.2% of GDP on defence, France 2.1%, Norway 1.95%, Italy 1.6%, Germany 1.4%, Sweden 1.25%, EU average 1.6%. Switzerland isn't a NATO member, and spends very little (0.7% GDP) on its military - because of its long standing neutrality.Ireland... 0.3%. Not a NATO member. Elsewhere in the world, Russia - 4.3%, Ukraine - 4.1%, US - 3.7%, Israel - 5.7%, Saudi - 8.4%, Australia - 2.1%... That sounds like a good idea don't you think?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 15, 2022 16:34:51 GMT
Actually, that's not true... NATO membership requires 2% GDP to be spent on defence. NATO membership itself is relatively low-cost - 0.3% of defence expenditure goes from the members to NATO itself, to pay for the admin, because NATOs forces are provided by individual national militaries. The UK spends 2.2% of GDP on defence, France 2.1%, Norway 1.95%, Italy 1.6%, Germany 1.4%, Sweden 1.25%, EU average 1.6%. Switzerland isn't a NATO member, and spends very little (0.7% GDP) on its military - because of its long standing neutrality.Ireland... 0.3%. Not a NATO member. Elsewhere in the world, Russia - 4.3%, Ukraine - 4.1%, US - 3.7%, Israel - 5.7%, Saudi - 8.4%, Australia - 2.1%... That sounds like a good idea don't you think? Y'mean "relying on neighbours to look after you"? Not a very scaleable idea. Clue: Not all military work is country-on-country conflict.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 15, 2022 16:45:15 GMT
That sounds like a good idea don't you think? Y'mean "relying on neighbours to look after you"? Not a very scaleable idea. Clue: Not all military work is country-on-country conflict. Well it seems to work for Switzerland and all the other wealthy European countries I mentioned and they are much closer to the potential action than we are.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 15, 2022 16:52:45 GMT
...and they are much closer to the potential action than we are. Which "we" are you referring to? UK - 2.2% Ukraine - 4.3% (Is that proving good value for money?)Can you think of any historical reasons why Germany may deliberately underspend on their military? Actually, the figure I gave earlier was outdated - it's now up to 1.6%. www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/germany-reports-record-defence-spending-still-below-nato-target/Take into account the differences in GDP per capita, and Germany (with a "woefully underfunded" military) spends about $750/head on defence, while the UK spends $880. BTW - do you think you might like to re-think the entire point of bracknellboy 's original post, with specific reference to The Andrew Formerly Known As Prince...?
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 15, 2022 17:02:23 GMT
UK armed forces carry out hundreds of covert opps every year in the UK,alone. Also unspecified nos abroad, to ensure safety of the realm. Don't knock it.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 15, 2022 17:13:36 GMT
...and they are much closer to the potential action than we are. Which "we" are you referring to? UK - 2.2% Ukraine - 4.3% (Is that proving good value for money?)Can you think of any historical reasons why Germany may deliberately underspend on their military? Actually, the figure I gave earlier was outdated - it's now up to 1.6%. www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/germany-reports-record-defence-spending-still-below-nato-target/Take into account the differences in GDP per capita, and Germany (with a "woefully underfunded" military) spends about $750/head on defence, while the UK spends $880. BTW - do you think you might like to re-think the entire point of bracknellboy 's original post, with specific reference to The Andrew Formerly Known As Prince...? If it was 143% it wouldn't make any difference if Vlad the impaler decided to expand his empire
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daveb
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Post by daveb on Jan 15, 2022 17:24:09 GMT
Maybe this thread should have been started in jokes as the OP seems to be flying over peoples heads at present
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 15, 2022 18:27:51 GMT
...and they are much closer to the potential action than we are. UK - 2.2% Ukraine - 4.3% (Is that proving good value for money?)Can you think of any historical reasons why Germany may deliberately underspend on their military? Actually, the figure I gave earlier was outdated - it's now up to 1.6%. www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/germany-reports-record-defence-spending-still-below-nato-target/Take into account the differences in GDP per capita, and Germany (with a "woefully underfunded" military) spends about $750/head on defence, while the UK spends $880. BTW - do you think you might like to re-think the entire point of bracknellboy 's original post, with specific reference to The Andrew Formerly Known As Prince...? For someone so against Brexit you seem remarkably un-cosmopolitan and insular in outlook. Just because I've been living here in Ukraine (on and off) for the past few months it doesn't mean the rest of my near 50 years born and bred in the UK count for nothing and suddenly will talk about "we" as being another country ! Edit: Forgot to add adrianc I've been paying over £300 per month on council tax the entire time. Not that that should should affect my national allegiance but it is a sign of where I call home.
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