angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 22, 2024 21:53:34 GMT
You probably know alot more about this than I do. This is my understanding - most Ukrainians are Slavic peoples of Orthodox Russian descent except in the West of Ukraine where you also have people of Polish and Hungarian descent. There are some people in areas of eastern Ukraine and Crimea who identify themselves as "Russians" not Ukrainians and have decided they would like to be part of the Russian Federation *. They like the whole Russian Vibe and certainly disagree with some of the comments on this forum about Putin.
* - Part of this might be to do with the way they feel they have been treated. It is also to do with the USSR dividing up various countries that existed before its formation Yes and self-identification is probably a fair way to do it but I think in reality (certainly before the war) its more of a sliding scale about how much russian and how much Ukranian you feel rather than a binary one or the other. Since the war and for obvious reasons (anecdotally speaking only) there is considerably more anti-Russian sentiment around with some even making an effort to speak Ukranian where they wouldn't have done previously for example. Most of the war damage as you know is in Donbass and that is where the Russian/Ukranian scale was previously tipped heavily in favour of Russia but I think that has changed.
I am sure there is alot of Anti-Russian Sentiment outside of the areas of Ukraine which want to be part of Russia. However, there is also parts of Western Ukraine that have extreme anti-russian sentiment which pre-dates this conflict and seems to be centered around Galacia. This internal division in Ukraine was something the Germans in WW2 tried to utilise in their attempt to destroy Russia. It seems to me that the US neo-cons have for their own reasons tried to re-ignite this divisive part of Ukrainian history.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 22, 2024 22:04:40 GMT
It seems to me that the US neo-cons have for their own reasons tried to re-ignite this divisive part of Ukrainian history. Sorry, you're saying it's the actions of the US that are responsible for increased anti-Russian sentiment in Ukraine since, ooh, 2014 or so? Not... the actions of... Russia? In, y'know, invading and annexing?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 22, 2024 22:32:01 GMT
Yes and self-identification is probably a fair way to do it but I think in reality (certainly before the war) its more of a sliding scale about how much russian and how much Ukranian you feel rather than a binary one or the other. Since the war and for obvious reasons (anecdotally speaking only) there is considerably more anti-Russian sentiment around with some even making an effort to speak Ukranian where they wouldn't have done previously for example. Most of the war damage as you know is in Donbass and that is where the Russian/Ukranian scale was previously tipped heavily in favour of Russia but I think that has changed.Just a reminder of something that has been published on this forum a few times before. In 1991 the independence vote was held. The overall vote was 92%. The 'strongly pro Russian' eastern regions of Ukr were not as supportive, obviously. Only around 82% voted for independence from the supposed 'motherland'. None of which matters of course, since Putin doesn't think that Ukrainians of any geographic disposition or descent have a right to be in their own independent state, because they are part of the greater Slavic people (albeit that Russians have ensured they get killed by the millions over the last couple of centuries). And of course that counts for nowt as Russia has a right for Ukr to be subservient to Russia. 'sphere of influence' and all that. That would likely be 99% now but we're talking about different things: Me about how folk self identify and you about what country they want to live in. Regardless of whether you get the difference here, I think you wouldn't disagree with me that being attacked by your neighbour makes you less likely to love him and all that he stands for...
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 22, 2024 23:04:16 GMT
Firstly I don't think this news is anywhere near confirmed is it ? Secondly, presumably if authorised it would be conditional for use on Ukranian land only ? My main question is how useful is this weapon for defence ? Russian logistics & bases in Crimea .... thats what its for Is it too weak to knock the bridge out ?
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rscal
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Post by rscal on Apr 23, 2024 6:49:41 GMT
Yes and self-identification is probably a fair way to do it but I think in reality (certainly before the war) its more of a sliding scale about how much russian and how much Ukranian you feel rather than a binary one or the other. Since the war and for obvious reasons (anecdotally speaking only) there is considerably more anti-Russian sentiment around with some even making an effort to speak Ukranian where they wouldn't have done previously for example. Most of the war damage as you know is in Donbass and that is where the Russian/Ukranian scale was previously tipped heavily in favour of Russia but I think that has changed.
I am sure there is alot of Anti-Russian Sentiment outside of the areas of Ukraine which want to be part of Russia. However, there is also parts of Western Ukraine that have extreme anti-russian sentiment which pre-dates this conflict and seems to be centered around Galacia. This internal division in Ukraine was something the Germans in WW2 tried to utilise in their attempt to destroy Russia. It seems to me that the US neo-cons have for their own reasons tried to re-ignite this divisive part of Ukrainian history.
Yes, nothing good EVER comes out of Washington. That reminds me of (whoever it was) said "it's bad to be an enemy of the US - but it's even worse to be one of its allies" Well Ukraine is being used a proxy in the never abandoned cause of taking down Russia going back 80 years. They made the error (admittedly it took TWO color revolutions) of trying to attack Russians within their own borders. This could turn into a very long comment so I'll stop there. (People either 'get it' or they pretend not to)
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 23, 2024 13:03:37 GMT
I am sure there is alot of Anti-Russian Sentiment outside of the areas of Ukraine which want to be part of Russia. However, there is also parts of Western Ukraine that have extreme anti-russian sentiment which pre-dates this conflict and seems to be centered around Galacia. This internal division in Ukraine was something the Germans in WW2 tried to utilise in their attempt to destroy Russia. It seems to me that the US neo-cons have for their own reasons tried to re-ignite this divisive part of Ukrainian history.
Yes, nothing good EVER comes out of Washington. That reminds me of (whoever it was) said "it's bad to be an enemy of the US - but it's even worse to be one of its allies" Well Ukraine is being used a proxy in the never abandoned cause of taking down Russia going back 80 years. They made the error (admittedly it took TWO color revolutions) of trying to attack Russians within their own borders. This could turn into a very long comment so I'll stop there. (People either 'get it' or they pretend not to) According to the below plus the recent $61B pledge, the US will have spent at least $140B of their taxpayers money on protecting the world from Russia. It started well before 2014 as they/Nato were building up their eastern flank [against Russia]. Some of their lawmakers are pretty open about the fact that it represents good value for money killing Russians and degrading their armed forces without a single US life lost (only Ukranians who don't really matter). Then Zelensky came along. He seemed a reasonable chap to many in Ukraine - westward leaning with plans to enter the EU and prosper. However instead, he focused relentlessly on purging the russian language and culture from his country. (Think removing english from Wales). Everything from driving licence and passport application to announcements on public transport to be in Ukranian and er....you guessed it in English ! Schools to teach English before Russian and best of all new laws on how folk could greet each other in the street or shops. Illegal to start a conversation in Russian. It must be Ukranian. Last I heard was you could start in Ukranian and then switch to Russian if you want. All this to provoke their biggest neighbour. Zelensky was the perfect man in Kyiv as far as the US is concerned. www.bbc.co.uk/news/66870559
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 23, 2024 16:11:22 GMT
According to the below plus the recent $61B pledge, the US will have spent at least $140B of their taxpayers money on protecting the world from Russia. It started well before 2014 as they/Nato were building up their eastern flank [against Russia]. Let's put that number into perspective. US Dept of Defense budget is $1.6tn this year alone. 13.1% of total US government expenditure. www.usaspending.gov/agency/department-of-defense?fy=2024
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 23, 2024 19:11:23 GMT
This might be of interest (I haven't finished watching it yet).
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 23, 2024 20:41:44 GMT
I really dont know why you listen to this fruit cake. Atleast the Colonel * has some knowledge of the subjects he talks about.
*- Apparently the Colonel has had his Security Clearance level reduced by the pentagon so he might not be such a great source of information going forward - I will still tune into his controversial podcast like many others such as George Galloway, Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 23, 2024 20:53:09 GMT
I really dont know why you listen to this fruit cake. Atleast the Colonel * has some knowledge of the subjects he talks about. www.vladvexler.com/about/Jewish, born in Russia, grew up in Israel and the UK, PhD in Political Philosophy from Oxford. Long history of creditable analysis of Russian culture and politics, and the Russian war on Ukraine. You're welcome to your views on "the Colonel". I'll stick to mine.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 23, 2024 21:02:50 GMT
*- Apparently the Colonel has had his Security Clearance level reduced by the pentagon so he might not be such a great source of information going forward - I will still tune into his controversial podcast like many others such as George Galloway, Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump
Finally, the Colonel is placed in his proper context amongst his peers. I have no idea about Vexler. I couldn't get past his delivery to the content...
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 23, 2024 21:12:36 GMT
I really dont know why you listen to this fruit cake. Atleast the Colonel * has some knowledge of the subjects he talks about. www.vladvexler.com/about/Jewish, born in Russia, grew up in Israel and the UK, PhD in Political Philosophy from Oxford. Long history of creditable analysis of Russian culture and politics, and the Russian war on Ukraine. You're welcome to your views on "the Colonel". I'll stick to mine.
I am not saying you shouldnt listen to him, I just dont get why you tune into him - I have flicked through a couple of his shows you posted and it seems pretty vacuous in my opinion.
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Post by Ace on Apr 23, 2024 22:10:02 GMT
www.vladvexler.com/about/Jewish, born in Russia, grew up in Israel and the UK, PhD in Political Philosophy from Oxford. Long history of creditable analysis of Russian culture and politics, and the Russian war on Ukraine. You're welcome to your views on "the Colonel". I'll stick to mine.
I am not saying you shouldnt listen to him, I just dont get why you tune into him - I have flicked through a couple of his shows you posted and it seems pretty vacuous in my opinion.
If your definition of vacuous is lacking the wall to wall conspiracy theories, the dangerous rabble rousing, and other complete nonsense spouted by your 4 preferred broadcasters, I'll settle for vacuous.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 23, 2024 22:39:10 GMT
I am not saying you shouldnt listen to him, I just dont get why you tune into him - I have flicked through a couple of his shows you posted and it seems pretty vacuous in my opinion.
If your definition of vacuous is lacking the wall to wall conspiracy theories, the dangerous rabble rousing, and other complete nonsense spouted by your 4 preferred broadcasters, I'll settle for vacuous. You mean like the one where I've been accused of being a Russian spy? Which others did you have in mind?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 24, 2024 6:05:52 GMT
If your definition of vacuous is lacking the wall to wall conspiracy theories, the dangerous rabble rousing, and other complete nonsense spouted by your 4 preferred broadcasters, I'll settle for vacuous. You mean like the one where I've been accused of being a Russian spy? Which others did you have in mind? You are either a conspiracy theorist or a foreign agent in the eyes of the social conformists who believe everything they are told by the authorities*. Over half of Americans believe one of the biggest conspiracy theories of all time - the JFK assassination involved the US Deep State and not a lone gunman with "magic bullets". Either most Americans are tin foil hat nut jobs or they have the common sense to know when they are being told a pack of lies by a bunch of lying psychopaths who murdered the president of the US in broad day light in front of thousands of people (and got away with it). * - As I have already stated it is remarkably similar to how religious zealots in the past used to react to people who disagreed with their religious dogma - you are either a Heretic or a Witch.
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