keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Feb 8, 2022 17:29:32 GMT
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 8, 2022 17:36:54 GMT
Thin end of the wedge, next step you pay more for peak energy. 
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2022 17:53:07 GMT
A friend lives in France and they have these sort of deals, she had a bill last year which was normal except for 15 minutes at E85/hour.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Feb 8, 2022 18:04:33 GMT
Thin end of the wedge, next step you pay more for peak energy.  If the rest of the day is cheaper that is acceptable, and if we have dirty power being produced and used then people should be paying more
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Feb 8, 2022 18:34:32 GMT
Thin end of the wedge, next step you pay more for peak energy. If the rest of the day is cheaper that is acceptable, and if we have dirty power being produced and used then people should be paying more If people can't cook their Christmas dinner because power is too expensive on Christmas day lunchtime, substitute any other holiday, etc, it is not going to be fair just another tax on the poor.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Feb 9, 2022 10:31:43 GMT
Give it another few years when electric cars are even more popular, watch costs for recharging go through the roof.
Government already discussing drops in fuel revenues and how to recover income.
Overnight charging at lower rates might not always be convenient.
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Post by wiseclerk on Feb 9, 2022 11:14:16 GMT
Here in Germany more than 90% consumers are in fixed price deals for electricty. Often the price is fixed for 12 or even 24 months ahead.
However over the last 1-2 years a couple of innovators have introduced tarifs that are coupled hourly to the spot prices (that means the price changes every hour). Can be beneficial for those with an electric car that can potentially shift some energy use to times where spot prices are low (does not need to be done manually, there are fully automated computer solutions that start and stop the charging when the spot prices are low). However we are talking about <0.1% household that use that yet. And obviously they did not do so well with the energy price hikes since Nov. (compared to average households that still have their prices fixed on pre-Nov. levels).
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Feb 9, 2022 11:47:39 GMT
Here in Germany more than 90% consumers are in fixed price deals for electricty. Often the price is fixed for 12 or even 24 months ahead.
However over the last 1-2 years a couple of innovators have introduced tarifs that are coupled hourly to the spot prices (that means the price changes every hour). Can be beneficial for those with an electric car that can potentially shift some energy use to times where spot prices are low (does not need to be done manually, there are fully automated computer solutions that start and stop the charging when the spot prices are low). However we are talking about <0.1% household that use that yet. And obviously they did not do so well with the energy price hikes since Nov. (compared to average households that still have their rpices fixed on pre-Nov. levels).
If the UK used as much coal as Germany we could have prices for electricity fixed for 2 years as well.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Feb 9, 2022 13:12:49 GMT
Here in Germany more than 90% consumers are in fixed price deals for electricty. Often the price is fixed for 12 or even 24 months ahead.
However over the last 1-2 years a couple of innovators have introduced tarifs that are coupled hourly to the spot prices (that means the price changes every hour). Can be beneficial for those with an electric car that can potentially shift some energy use to times where spot prices are low (does not need to be done manually, there are fully automated computer solutions that start and stop the charging when the spot prices are low). However we are talking about <0.1% household that use that yet. And obviously they did not do so well with the energy price hikes since Nov. (compared to average households that still have their rpices fixed on pre-Nov. levels).
If the UK used as much coal as Germany we could have prices for electricity fixed for 2 years as well. Hardly. Germany peaks at about 20GW out of 70GW total from coal - just under 30%. energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htmThe UK only dropped below that proportion in 2014.
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Post by wiseclerk on Feb 9, 2022 13:15:11 GMT
Looking at production I do not see that big of a difference UK 2020: 36.9% renewables (23.6% wind and solar, 1.8% hydro, 11.5% other renewables) Germany 2021: 45.7% renewables (23% wind, 10% solar, 4% hydro, 8.8% other renewables)
Yes, regarding the fossils Germany burns much much more coal (29%) while UK burns gas. Nuclear was similar in both around 16-17%, thatwill end in Germany this year as last three active nuclear plants will shut down 1.1.2023. Looking at per capital CO2 output is a little misleading in my opinion, since there is a lot more industry in germany while UK is ahead in shifting towards finance/services.
Also I would say germany is lightyears ahead in insulation in housing. I have a friend who bought a house in Canterbury. I would weep if I had his heating costs for my house. He literally heats the neighborhood along with his house.
My house was built in 1998 so it is not even uptodate to latest standards. For a new house built now based on current standards here energy costs are calculates to be about 50 to under 75 kWh per m² per year (which equals about £2 per m² per year).
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Post by bernythedolt on Feb 9, 2022 19:32:53 GMT
Looking at production I do not see that big of a difference UK 2020: 36.9% renewables (23.6% wind and solar, 1.8% hydro, 11.5% other renewables) Germany 2021: 45.7% renewables (23% wind, 10% solar, 4% hydro, 8.8% other renewables)
Yes, regarding the fossils Germany burns much much more coal (29%) while UK burns gas. Nuclear was similar in both around 16-17%, thatwill end in Germany this year as last three active nuclear plants will shut down 1.1.2023. Looking at per capital CO2 output is a little misleading in my opinion, since there is a lot more industry in germany while UK is ahead in shifting towards finance/services. [...]
Gas being the cleanest fossil fuel and coal just about the worst.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Feb 10, 2022 10:50:42 GMT
If the rest of the day is cheaper that is acceptable, and if we have dirty power being produced and used then people should be paying more If people can't cook their Christmas dinner because power is too expensive on Christmas day lunchtime, substitute any other holiday, etc, it is not going to be fair just another tax on the poor. It's fairer than the current system when the wholesale cost per unit can exceed the price that consumers pay and Coal or gas polluting stations are brought on line. As someone who has followed the price trends over the day, I seriously expect that it will become the norm to have charging at different bands during the day. So a cheap rate 1-5 am, Normal 5-16 Peak 16-19 Normal 19-1 Octopus Agile sort of follows this model and EDF have a similar one rolling out. this would benefit those who can or choose to move their demand away from the peak
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Post by wiseclerk on Feb 10, 2022 11:29:35 GMT
So a cheap rate 1-5 am, Normal 5-16 Peak 16-19 Normal 19-1 With a built-up in solar there is a fair chance that in the not so far future around noon/early afternoon will become the cheapest time band. Give it a couple of years.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Feb 10, 2022 11:34:04 GMT
only from mid march to late October ( in my experience with solar )
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Post by wiseclerk on Feb 10, 2022 11:55:05 GMT
True.
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