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Post by valueinvestor123 on Jan 10, 2015 0:02:24 GMT
I am finding it hard getting invested quickly with thincats. There don't seem to be many loans on the primary market and the secondary market is a pain to navigate: for a start, you can't see what the interest rate is on offer unless you go inside a loan and also it doesn't tell you whether the auction is fully met unless you click into the loan...so it's a lot of back and forth unnecessary clicking. I wonder why they don't show this info on the grid listing, like say Assetz Capital? Or maybe I am not using it right? Or is it the period? (with not many loans) vi123
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 10, 2015 7:42:38 GMT
The secondary market is indeed hard to navigate. However, Trilight's very useful spreadsheet takes a lot of the pain out of it. You can find this on either forum; he starts new threads each month. The old forum is better because there is more discussion there - including some quite educational stuff this month. If you are logged in to the old forum, this link should work: www.forum.thincats.net/forums/topic/january-sm/. Threads in the new forum are impossible to link to. The main drawback with the spreadsheet is that by the time he publishes it (usually daily) one more bargains may have gone. So it is worth looking at the market regularly to see what's new - which will always be at the top. If you can pick up fixed rate offers on the SM, they will always be at par (= original interest rate), which is actually a discount because you get the accrued interest for free. It can be a good way to get started, if you like the loans on offer. Ignore the displayed "target rate" on fixed rate offers, if it differs from the original rate. This is a bug resulting from cached data not being cleared correctly when fixed rate listing requests are submitted. All fixed rate sales are processed at par.
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Post by tybalt on Jan 10, 2015 9:57:30 GMT
Late December early January is a little slow based on three years experience. It took me 15 months to reach being fully invested.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 10, 2015 11:37:47 GMT
I'm slowly building up my TC portfolio, but it can be a struggle. I can well imagine 15 months to get up and running.
The primary market goes from feast to famine, and at the minute most of the offerings are interest only (which I try to avoid).
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Post by valueinvestor123 on Jan 14, 2015 23:01:06 GMT
On the secondary market, I often get the message 'bid rate exceeds maximum allowed'. This is when the target rate is below the average or maximum rate. What bid rate am I supposed to be offering? How can a site for such serious investment amounts be so buggy?
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 15, 2015 8:56:55 GMT
On the secondary market, I often get the message 'bid rate exceeds maximum allowed'. This is when the target rate is below the average or maximum rate. What bid rate am I supposed to be offering? How can a site for such serious investment amounts be so buggy? Two possibilities: 1. If you are bidding on a fixed rate auction, then as stated in my previous post you must ignore the displayed "target rate" on fixed rate offers, if it differs from the original rate. This is a bug resulting from cached data not being cleared correctly when fixed rate listing requests are submitted. All fixed rate sales are processed at par. Put simply, if it is a fixed rate auction, you must bid at the original rate. 2. Broadly speaking, the system will only accept bids for a par amount that is either a multiple of £1,000 or the remainder of the loan part on offer. I have seen reports that if you try to do anything different you will get this message. Also, are you bidding from the Auction Summary page or from the Bid Listing (which you get to by clicking the grey box on the Auction Summary)? Some things seem to work better if you bid from the Bid Listing. Worth a try. For help with TC problems generally, you are better off posting on one of the TC forums. More TC lenders participate there and you might get some other suggestions.
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Post by valueinvestor123 on Jan 15, 2015 11:13:08 GMT
Thanks but where do I see what the original rate is? For example loan no. 12 on the SM, currently has a target rate of 10% (avd and max bids 0 for some reason). So I will be ignoring the target rate as per your post. When I try bidding and entering £1000 manually then the adjusted rate is 10.98% (how is that calculated?). I then can't bid at this rate as it tells me 'bid rate not a multiple of bid decrement'. When I set the bid rate lower, I get another bid error message. How do I know what bid rate I can bid at and if it is at the 'original bid rate', where can I see it? Also: why does my bid amount change, when I change the bid rate? All very strange...
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 15, 2015 13:00:08 GMT
Thanks but where do I see what the original rate is? For example loan no. 12 on the SM, currently has a target rate of 10% (avd and max bids 0 for some reason). So I will be ignoring the target rate as per your post. When I try bidding and entering £1000 manually then the adjusted rate is 10.98% (how is that calculated?). I then can't bid at this rate as it tells me 'bid rate not a multiple of bid decrement'. When I set the bid rate lower, I get another bid error message. How do I know what bid rate I can bid at and if it is at the 'original bid rate', where can I see it? Also: why does my bid amount change, when I change the bid rate? All very strange... A few different points here. Where do I see what the original rate is?You can see the original rate on the DO Details tab, accessible from the Auction Summary. [Edit: it's captioned Bid Rate.] In this case it is 10.98%. At the moment also appears in brackets in the drop-down box for either a Standard or Dynamic bid. This might change if the auction is filled with bids at a lower rate; I'm not sure. ...avdg and max bids 0 for some reason"Avg rate" and "Max rate" currently refer to rates of succesful bids in this auction. They are nil because there have been no successful bids. This is unhelpful. Max rate should tell us the maximum permitted rate but at present it does not. You have to guess. I will come back to this... Edit: the maximum permitted rate is there but it is well hidden. Go to the DO Details tab (see above) then click on the tab "DO Auctions" and you will see a screen that includes the maximum rate. This screen is actually one of the older ones in the system but it got buried in one of the updates. In this case it is 10.25%, ie target +0.25%, which is usual. ...I will be ignoring the target rate as per your postThis is a variable rate auction so you should not ignore the target rate. It should be ignored only on fixed rate auctions. The target rate is what the current lender hopes to get but it is usually possible to bid at a slightly higher rate. The maximum permitted rate is set manually by TC. At one time it was usually set 0.25% higher than the target rate, so my first guess as to the maximum permitted rate would be 10.25%, but it could be higher (and you can't bid at 10.25% anyway - see below). Edit: see above. When I try bidding and entering £1000 manually then the adjusted rate is 10.98% (how is that calculated?)I infer that you are trying to make a standard bid. The system is showing you the original rate in the adjusted rate box. I don't know why. In any case you will need to change it because, as you have discovered, it will not let you bid at that rate... I then can't bid at this rate as it tells me 'bid rate not a multiple of bid decrement'.The standard bid decrement on a SM auction is 0.1%. This used not to restrict the rates at which bids could be made, it just forced dynamic bids to step down in 0.1% steps. However, I have established by trial and error that this auction will only accept bids in whole multiples of 0.1%. It's a while since I bid on a variable rate auction but I think this is a relatively recent change. Also: why does my bid amount change, when I change the bid rate?AFAIK the bid amount does not change when you change the bid rate. It certainly should not. What does change is the bid price. You pay a premium if the bid rate is less than the original rate, or a discount if it is more. I suggest trying a bid at (say) 10.5%. If the system won't accept this it means the max has been set lower. Go down by 0.1% at a time until it is accepted.
Edit: In this case, although the max rate has been set at 10.25%, the max rate at which you will actually able to bid is probably 10.2%. Also consider making a dynamic bid rather than a standard bid as this puts you at the front of the queue if the rate is bid down. But be sure to set your lower rate at a multiple of 0.1 and don't set it lower than you are prepared to go.
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Post by valueinvestor123 on Jan 15, 2015 14:21:45 GMT
Many thanks that's really helpful. Especially learning about the dynamic bidding (that's enabled by checking dynamic box below 'balance'?) I just tried it however and for example for loan no. 14, I set the bid a 13% (which seems the default adjusted bid rate) and set the minimum rate at 11% (below the 12% target rate) and I am still getting the error message that bid rate exceeds maximum allowed. I must be slow...
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 15, 2015 15:10:11 GMT
Many thanks that's really helpful. Especially learning about the dynamic bidding (that's enabled by checking dynamic box below 'balance'?) I just tried it however and for example for loan no. 14, I set the bid a 13% (which seems the default adjusted bid rate) and set the minimum rate at 11% (below the 12% target rate) and I am still getting the error message that bid rate exceeds maximum allowed. I must be slow... Not at all. Please see the edits to my previous post as I have just discovered where the maximum bid rate is hidden. This particular auction is showing the original rate on the loan ("Bid Rate") at 13.00% and a Target Rate of 12.00%. The maximum bid has been set at 12.25%, but we have just established that the system probably won't let you bid at 12.25%. Try a dynamic bid with an upper rate of 12.2%.
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Jan 15, 2015 15:29:07 GMT
Many thanks that's really helpful. Especially learning about the dynamic bidding (that's enabled by checking dynamic box below 'balance'?) I just tried it however and for example for loan no. 14, I set the bid a 13% (which seems the default adjusted bid rate) and set the minimum rate at 11% (below the 12% target rate) and I am still getting the error message that bid rate exceeds maximum allowed. I must be slow... I don't think you're slow. I registered months ago and find the whole system utterly confusing. However, you could use ThinCats Lending Club. Every month they list a loan TLCxx at 7%. TLC will use that money to invest in a range of loans on the ThinCats site including the SM. Although 7% doesn't sound much, the surplus interest builds up and is averaging over 9% after losses. There is a cost of 0.25% but you will get the benefit of cashback because they buy in bulk. You can still sell your holdings at any time on the SM.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Jan 15, 2015 15:55:16 GMT
I don't think you're slow. I registered months ago and find the whole system utterly confusing. However, you could use ThinCats Lending Club. Every month they list a loan TLCxx at 7%. TLC will use that money to invest in a range of loans on the ThinCats site including the SM. Although 7% doesn't sound much, the surplus interest builds up and is averaging over 9% after losses. There is a cost of 0.25% but you will get the benefit of cashback because they buy in bulk. You can still sell your holdings at any time on the SM. A few words of caution regarding TLCs and the SM. There are two types of TLC (1) Vanilla TLCs that pays interest at 7% as they go along. At the end you get any surplus. (2) Roll-up TLCs where all interest is paid at the end. The SM software works by reference to the original par value of the loan, which makes it hard (and in the case of roll-up TLCs sometimes impossible) to sell TLC loan parts at a realistic premium - see for example page 2 of the thread General > SM DOs January on the new forum. There is also some uncertainty about the tax treatment of rolled up interest if they are sold before maturity. If I were you, I would avoid investing in new roll-up TLCs unless I was sure that I would be able to hold them to maturity. They might be worth buying on SM if you can get get them at a sufficient discount to their net asset value but this is A-level stuff and not really recommended for beginners. You need to know your way around the Dropbox and understand the limitations of the information provided in the TLC progress reports. This is much less of an issue for vanilla TLCs because the premium bulding up will be much smaller (and could well be zero or negative if there are losses). They are a better buy IMO, if you are happy to leave the loan selection to TC's algorithm. Finally I would note that recent TLC issues have not been very popular so they are relatively small. This limits their bid size on individual loans so their bids may not be big enough to get cashback.
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Post by valueinvestor123 on Jan 15, 2015 22:55:33 GMT
Many thanks that's really helpful. Especially learning about the dynamic bidding (that's enabled by checking dynamic box below 'balance'?) I just tried it however and for example for loan no. 14, I set the bid a 13% (which seems the default adjusted bid rate) and set the minimum rate at 11% (below the 12% target rate) and I am still getting the error message that bid rate exceeds maximum allowed. I must be slow... Not at all. Please see the edits to my previous post as I have just discovered where the maximum bid rate is hidden. This particular auction is showing the original rate on the loan ("Bid Rate") at 13.00% and a Target Rate of 12.00%. The maximum bid has been set at 12.25%, but we have just established that the system probably won't let you bid at 12.25%. Try a dynamic bid with an upper rate of 12.2%. I find it strange that the system would care what I set my upper bid at, if I am bidding via dynamic bid, it should just go to the next acceptable bid level and ignore my upper bid limit. Instead, it declines the whole thing.
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Post by valueinvestor123 on Jan 15, 2015 23:05:45 GMT
Many thanks that's really helpful. Especially learning about the dynamic bidding (that's enabled by checking dynamic box below 'balance'?) I just tried it however and for example for loan no. 14, I set the bid a 13% (which seems the default adjusted bid rate) and set the minimum rate at 11% (below the 12% target rate) and I am still getting the error message that bid rate exceeds maximum allowed. I must be slow... I don't think you're slow. I registered months ago and find the whole system utterly confusing. However, you could use ThinCats Lending Club. Every month they list a loan TLCxx at 7%. TLC will use that money to invest in a range of loans on the ThinCats site including the SM. Although 7% doesn't sound much, the surplus interest builds up and is averaging over 9% after losses. There is a cost of 0.25% but you will get the benefit of cashback because they buy in bulk. You can still sell your holdings at any time on the SM. I usually just try buy anything from 10% interest onwards. I know this is not very sophisticated but I don't really have time to examine each loan and I don't believe I will be able to add value or smell out fishy loans so I try to diversify. Otherwise I am beginning to wonder why not just stick with assetz capital and funding secure. The latter has securitised loans starting from 12% and often you can get a bonus of 2%, so 15% in total; also much easier to navigate and understand what's happening. The reason I also opened an account with thincats is to get invested quickly but actually it is proving one of the slowest platforms so far for me to get invested... Is there a default statistic for thincats anywhere? I have no idea what I am buying...
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Post by valueinvestor123 on Jan 15, 2015 23:22:39 GMT
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