mogish
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Post by mogish on Mar 30, 2022 15:08:28 GMT
Hi. I wont go into personal details but has anyone challenged a POA and if so , was it difficult and on what grounds?
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james100
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Post by james100 on Mar 30, 2022 16:20:08 GMT
Hi. I wont go into personal details but has anyone challenged a POA and if so , was it difficult and on what grounds? I have not done so through official legal channels if that's what you mean. www.gov.uk/object-registration-power-attorney is a starting point though. I have challenged a POA informally which was time consuming, difficult and depressing though (although ultimately half "successful").
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 30, 2022 18:25:57 GMT
Hi. I wont go into personal details but has anyone challenged a POA and if so , was it difficult and on what grounds? First off, are you talking about a "current-style" LPoA? Or is it an older EPoA? What stage is the PoA at? Is it already registered, or going through the process of being registered? There's a process to follow to object during registration, but afterwards it's a lot harder. www.gov.uk/object-registration-power-attorneyWhat's the issue? Is it with the attorney's handling of affairs? Or because you don't think the right people are being chosen? There's a process to follow to register concerns about handling - www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-deputy-guardianDoes the person still have capacity? If so, they can end the PoA themselves. www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/end
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Mar 31, 2022 6:56:33 GMT
Basically I have a relative who cannot make his own decisions and his wife is being very difficult. Ie refused to allow relatives to visit in home or hospital, sends nasty e mails when we enquire about his health, selling off his assets etc. It's really upsetting my parents.
The Poa was set up about 18m ago. I've called the office of public guardian for advice but they were absolutely useless.
I just feel helpless and it annoys me she can be so wicked and unchallenged.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Mar 31, 2022 8:40:27 GMT
Basically I have a relative who cannot make his own decisions and his wife is being very difficult. Ie refused to allow relatives to visit in home or hospital, sends nasty e mails when we enquire about his health, selling off his assets etc. It's really upsetting my parents. The Poa was set up about 18m ago. I've called the office of public guardian for advice but they were absolutely useless. I just feel helpless and it annoys me she can be so wicked and unchallenged. This sounds very difficult. Maybe it helps a little to know that this situation is not uncommon. Mine was bit different because the POA was not operational - it meant the difficult conversations happened when the donor was still able to modify terms and I could have the conversations with them rather than a third party. There are specialists (solicitors) who can give you advice as to whether there is a case or not. If you think things are badly wrong, I would recommend speaking to one because it will force you to gather concrete evidence and basically establish whether there is a legal case. If there is, you can use this as leverage for mediation, informally or otherwise, and hopefully that will jolt some common sense into the situation without going through the legal system.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Mar 31, 2022 9:22:50 GMT
Believe me we have tried for months. It got to the stage that I had to block her from messages as the lies and venom got to much. I cant believe a person can be so vile and uncaring at a time when a family should help each other. I will try again to have an investigation carried out by office of the public gaurdian(scotland) , like all contact with bodies, its who you can get hold of that cares rather than someone fobbing you off with "we cant get involved" Maybe a solicitor is my last resort.
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liso
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Post by liso on Mar 31, 2022 9:36:48 GMT
Basically I have a relative who cannot make his own decisions and his wife is being very difficult. Ie refused to allow relatives to visit in home or hospital, sends nasty e mails when we enquire about his health, selling off his assets etc. It's really upsetting my parents. The Poa was set up about 18m ago. I've called the office of public guardian for advice but they were absolutely useless. I just feel helpless and it annoys me she can be so wicked and unchallenged. Is this a situation of coercive control? The pattern of behaviour you describe between your relative and his wife suggests that it might be, and coercive control is a form of domestic abuse and a criminal offence, POA notwithstanding.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Mar 31, 2022 9:45:54 GMT
Believe me we have tried for months. It got to the stage that I had to block her from messages as the lies and venom got to much. I cant believe a person can be so vile and uncaring at a time when a family should help each other. I will try again to have an investigation carried out by office of the public gaurdian(scotland) , like all contact with bodies, its who you can get hold of that cares rather than someone fobbing you off with "we cant get involved" Maybe a solicitor is my last resort. My guess is you are far more likely to get a public investigation carried out (effectively) if you can tell them a solicitor has reviewed your gathered evidence and believes there is a case. My foray into this area took 2.5 years and I don't underestimate the emotional toll at all. If I had my time again I'd go faster and harder from day 1...a few hundred quid and a legal letter would have saved me a lot of stress and possibly been less damaging to the relationship than the drawn out "diplomatic" way I handled things. I've also been through a similar process with executor fraud!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 31, 2022 10:05:59 GMT
Basically I have a relative who cannot make his own decisions So likely doesn't have the capacity to end the PoA himself - or, importantly, to set up another one... If this PoA was closed down, then any and every decision regarding your relative would have to be taken through the Court of Protection - and that's very slow, very expensive. Be careful what you wish for, you might get it. That doesn't come under the PoA anyway. As his wife, she has more right to restrict visits than you do to insist on them. Likewise with that. I suspect that they're actually their assets, marital joint assets. If he had capacity, and they divorced, would they be viewed as marital assets in the financial settlement...? And, again, that's not the PoA's business... When he had capacity. Presumably, it's an LPoA that has been fully registered. Anybody can check whether there's a registered LPoA in place, and who the attorneys are - www.gov.uk/view-lasting-power-of-attorneyIt would be illegal for them to do anything bar tell you the very basics anyway, anything more would be a GDPR breach. To all intents and purposes here, you are just Joe Public. Family trees, in and of themselves, carry no weight legally. The job of an attorney is to act in the person's best interests - in finance and property, or in health and welfare. To make the decisions they believe the person would make themselves if they were capable. The PoA is no more than the legal mechanism by which banks, solicitors, doctors, hospitals recognise the attorney's right to deal with them on the person's behalf. Given that we're talking about a married couple, it's entirely possible a PoA isn't even needed to manage those medical or financial decisions. The wife will be next of kin as far as medics are concerned and, if the assets are joint ones, then they're as much the wife's as your relative's... If there's no accusation that the attorney is going against your relative's best interests (which are not necessarily the same as ensuring maximum longevity) in their dealings with medical professionals, or is misusing the person's sole assets for their own purposes, then there's nothing they're actually doing wrong under the PoA. I'm sorry you're in this situation, but I can't see from what you've said so far that you've got a legitimate objection - or that one would make any difference.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Mar 31, 2022 10:32:19 GMT
Thanks all for your responses to what is a very delicate matter. Adrian , as much as I maybe dont like what Im hearing , you are probably correct in that there is not much I can do. The marital assets will be legally hers, additionally she probably belives she is acting in his best interests.
How anyone can come to the conclusion that keeping close relatives away from visiting or even contact by phone to ask how he is , is beyond me.
Maybe it would be worth spending a few hundred speaking to a lawyer , Its just so frustrating having to go to these lenghts inthe first place.
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