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Post by overthehill on Nov 25, 2022 10:23:19 GMT
Nope. In fact it goes on Negotiations on the maintenance of shared capabilities would not include nuclear weapons. This Scottish Government would make early agreement on the speediest safe removal of nuclear weapons a priority. This would be with a view to the removal of Trident within the first term of the Scottish Parliament following independence.The detailed process and timetable for removal would be a priority for negotiation between the Scottish Government and the Westminster Government. However we have noted the work undertaken by the Scottish Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND), which suggests that Trident could be dismantled within two yearsIt's almost like they're saying: if you don't want to move your nuclear submarines we can always dismantle them. So they won't be getting independence then.
And what is more objectionable is that back in the 80's there was a lot of support from within Scotland to have Faslane expanded to accommodate the trident refits (much to the chagrin of the people of Plymouth and Portsmouth, who were campaigning to have trident refits carried out south of the border).
Sturgeon's obsessed about independence and has been banging on about removing nuclear weapons forever. She would still expect the UK to shoot down Russian nuclear missiles though.
The russian invasion / expansionism / imperialism is another nail in the coffin for independence as giving up nuclear weapons and signing guaranteed agreements didn't work out too well for Ukraine
Independence means giving up the nuclear deterrent whilst taking defenceless and free shelter and protection from the UK and US, that context has changed completely now and I think that means even less votes for independence
Sturgeon's head has been up her arse since the last referendum, she can't deal with it. The SNP are basically an independence PR and sales company, blame the UK for everything and compare it to a free scotland utopia.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Nov 25, 2022 15:36:55 GMT
no, it will be "best out of three" then in 2 years best of 5, 7, 9, 11... still no indication of who paid for the legal action was it the SNP or was it the Scottish Government
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Nov 25, 2022 16:08:23 GMT
If Scotland went independent, why on earth would they pay to have it relocated? They'd just say that the UK-1 entity has to remove their nuclear subs from Scottish territory. It would be the rest that would have to pay for that (many billions of pounds), not Scotland. Now of course, if Scotland wanted to remain part of some 'mutual defence pact' with the remainder of the UK, then the negotiating power would look a little different. "yes you can, but in return for paying ......" (the SNP has made it clear they wouldn't have any nuclear weapons based from scotland in the event of "independence", regardless of what form that might take. Because Scotland can only become independent if the rest of the UK agrees, and one of the conditions would be 'you pay to relocate Faslane, and you don't get independence until it's done'. Same with border controls at Gretna Green. If we are going to incur a cost then Scotland pays.
Why on earth would we agree to independence if it's going to cost us a fortune?
Actually it would save us a fortune. Scotland's block grant from central government is many billions more that its tax revenues (including those from North Sea Oil, if we hypothecate them to Scotland). This was not always so. When North Sea Oil production was much higher, Scotland was a net contributor. However, it's pretty sure to remain a net recipient going forward. A couple of links: www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence-exactly-how-much-money-does-scotland-contribute-to-england-and-what-is-the-barnett-formula-3233129ifs.org.uk/news/scottish-government-funding-person-over-30-higher-equivalent-english-funding-it-has-stillFrom a purely economic perspective, then, England would be better off without Scotland. Since losing Scotland would give the Tories an almost watertight majority south of the border, one would be forgiven for wondering why they appear to be trying so hard to keep it. Perhaps they secretly are not - although as the Conservative and Unionist Party they must appear to be.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on Nov 25, 2022 22:06:07 GMT
Spot on over the hill. Sturgeon has so many other issues going on right now with nhs, teachers, ferries and blaming everyone but herself for snp failures that I think scottish voters are now seeing through the propaganda , bullshit and hatred she has peddled for years. If she ever gets independence then she cant use Westminster any more for her failings. Working People are getting fed up supporting the hard done to . Baby boxes and xmas payments have to be paid by someone. Never mind the 5m promised to Barbados.
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trevor
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Post by trevor on Nov 27, 2022 16:08:16 GMT
I don’t understand the tories idealogical opposition to an independent Scotland. The remainder would be better off financially and their parliamentary majority would increase. What’s not to like?
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 27, 2022 16:35:16 GMT
I don’t understand the tories idealogical opposition to an independent Scotland. The remainder would be better off financially and their parliamentary majority would increase. What’s not to like? Well, they are in fact the "Conservative and Unionist Party", so that's the biggest clue. Basic ideology. But since they ceased being conservative some years back, pivoting to right wing populism instead, they could just as easily cease being Unionist.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 27, 2022 16:40:17 GMT
No party wants to go down in history as the one that made the country physically smaller...
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 27, 2022 16:41:01 GMT
Because Scotland can only become independent if the rest of the UK agrees, and one of the conditions would be 'you pay to relocate Faslane, and you don't get independence until it's done'. Same with border controls at Gretna Green. If we are going to incur a cost then Scotland pays.
Why on earth would we agree to independence if it's going to cost us a fortune?
Actually it would save us a fortune. Scotland's block grant from central government is many billions more that its tax revenues (including those from North Sea Oil, if we hypothecate them to Scotland). This was not always so. When North Sea Oil production was much higher, Scotland was a net contributor. However, it's pretty sure to remain a net recipient going forward. A couple of links: www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence-exactly-how-much-money-does-scotland-contribute-to-england-and-what-is-the-barnett-formula-3233129ifs.org.uk/news/scottish-government-funding-person-over-30-higher-equivalent-english-funding-it-has-stillFrom a purely economic perspective, then, England would be better off without Scotland. Since losing Scotland would give the Tories an almost watertight majority south of the border, one would be forgiven for wondering why they appear to be trying so hard to keep it. Perhaps they secretly are not - although as the Conservative and Unionist Party they must appear to be. Only if England/RUK persisted with a grossly disproportional electoral system - they don't have a majority of votes. But with a fairer electoral system it would seem likely they'd be in pole position in most scenarios (although the next election will be instructive as to how much damage the debacle of this government has done to the Tories in the longer term).
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jo
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Post by jo on Nov 27, 2022 17:25:19 GMT
1) Given that the SNP (hard)core vote is (mostly) of a republican bent, invite Celtic into the English Premier league. 2) Watch a couple of hundred thousand Yes votes evaporate.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 27, 2022 19:24:21 GMT
1) Given that the SNP (hard)core vote is (mostly) of a republican bent, invite Celtic into the English Premier league. 2) Watch a couple of hundred thousand Yes votes evaporate. Based on ability, I assume you mean second division (you know the one that use to be the fourth division)?
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