angrysaveruk
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Back and to the left..
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Post by angrysaveruk on Dec 5, 2022 18:32:40 GMT
There are no other major appliances that use electric. I am going to rig a plug on the gas Combi Boiler so I can test how much it is using - should not be much according to the spec but I need to test it. Other than that the only thing I can think is something is faulty and leaking current to the ground - which I am going to work out how I can test for that or a broken meter. The whole thing started with my drive to reduce energy. We have done fantastic on gas consumption (reduced it by 70% with a combination of a wood burner, limiting hot water use and dehumidifiers) - electric for some reason seems to be a lot harder to reduce.
You could buy an energy monitor that you can clip on to the live wire going into your meter. The sensor can determine voltage, amps and thus wattage being used very accurately - I bought one several years ago to try and work out where all my power consumption was going. This is a link to the one I purchased for c£40 which has a wireless remote monitor which sits on my desk - uk.efergy.com/elite-classic. Alternatively you could just request installation of a smart meter which will provide the same info and will be installed free (I don't have enough surrounding space for a smart installation apparently). With a energy monitor you can then turn off all the power circuits on your main consumer/fuse/RCD unit and switch each ring on separately so you can see how much power each circuit is drawing, eg upstairs/downstairs plugs, lighting, oven boiler etc and narrow down where power is being drawn.
Thanks for the information. Great thing about the Clamp meters is you dont need to do any wiring, so dont need to mess about with the permanently live wires that going into the meter. The fact that my meter is out by about 30% atleast is pretty worrying, the sceptic in me wouldnt be surprised if they didnt design these things to have a postitive bias if they go wrong. There are probably people who are having to turn off their electric because their meters are broken.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 5, 2022 19:05:03 GMT
Question I have about smart meters is do the current crop provide usage data in realtime? I had heard that some/all (?) only provide data every 5 minutes. mine provides electric usage in near/soft realtime - probably a matter of a few seconds delay, so "realtime" (ish) for all domestic practical purposes. Gas however is 30 minute updates - I'm guessing there is something pretty inherent in that. EDIT: it is entirely sufficient for my having been able to figure out the actual (otherwise unknown) power usage of a number of items, simply by virtue of letting it be in a steady state and then switching things on/off.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 5, 2022 19:10:32 GMT
Thanks to MichaelC's suggestion about Clamp Meters I am pretty sure I have a faulty Electric Meter. There is no way this thing is working correctly. Initially I purchased a cheap model that cost me about £10 and has confirmed the meter is reading garbage and my wife is not to blame. I am going to buy a very expensive version now with higher accuracy and take readings over a month, after which I am going to find out what the legal situation is on faulty meters. I think it is reasonable to assume I have been paying too much since I purchased this property along with this meter 12 years ago. Thank you to everyone who made suggestions. I have no experience in this specifically: however, as a general principle I'd suggest that if you are pretty confident you have a problem I'd notify your supplier immediately. That puts the onus on them to come and check. Most importantly in case of any time based limitation on claims then you want to alert them now, not when a few more months have passed that you can't claw back. Any delay on them sorting out from teh point you inform them of a problem will be there responsibility. Whereas if you don't and there is a time limitation for historic claims, the delay is your responsibility.
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Post by bernythedolt on Dec 6, 2022 0:54:37 GMT
Question I have about smart meters is do the current crop provide usage data in realtime? I had heard that some/all (?) only provide data every 5 minutes. mine provides electric usage in near/soft realtime - probably a matter of a few seconds delay, so "realtime" (ish) for all domestic practical purposes. Gas however is 30 minute updates - I'm guessing there is something pretty inherent in that. EDIT: it is entirely sufficient for my having been able to figure out the actual (otherwise unknown) power usage of a number of items, simply by virtue of letting it be in a steady state and then switching things on/off. Mine too. The reading changes one or two seconds after an appliance is switched on or off. This enabled me to walk around the house learning where all the energy was being devoured. One quick win was replacing incandescent and halogen bulbs with LEDs. There's something comforting about a room illuminated perfectly well for 6 watts which was previously costing 100 watts.
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Post by moonraker on Dec 6, 2022 10:45:52 GMT
Just checked my OVO bill and am £550 in credit, and unless the next three months are exceptionally cold I'm unlikely to use anything like that. I tried to adjust my direct debit payments online but the website will only accept increases. I'll send in my latest meter readings and then haggle with an "agent". My credit then went up to £650, so I've just rung up OVO - whose lines, surprise, surprise. were "extremely busy", though I got through reasonably quickly. The agent readily agreed to refund most my credit (but why does it take ten working days for the money to reach my bank account?) and reduce my direct debit payment.
(Overnight, I'd received my fourth letter welcoming me, as an SSE customer, to OVO: "We recently let you know that your energy supply is moving to OVO Energy. Great news! Your move is now complete. With OVO you can expect clean, affordable energy, and the same great customer service you had with SSE.OVO will be in touch to welcome you in the next few weeks." The first was, IIRC, a year ago.)
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 7, 2022 9:32:27 GMT
...With OVO you can expect clean ... energy This greenwash guff does grind my teeth... With OVO you can expect exactly the same mix of generation sources as from any other supplier... Because that's how the bloody grid works.
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Post by westcountryfunder on Dec 7, 2022 11:35:26 GMT
...With OVO you can expect clean ... energy This greenwash guff does grind my teeth... With OVO you can expect exactly the same mix of generation sources as from any other supplier... Because that's how the bloody grid works. But is that true? Let's imagine that all consumers and generators are linked to one enormous circle. The outputs are to consumers, the inputs from the generators. For those green consumers who choose to buy from a particular green supplier then all that has to happen is that the supplier buys in bulk only from green generators who are feeding power into the circle. When, as a consequence, the demand from suppliers to gas generators declines, then the only constraint is whether green generators have sufficient capacity. The fact that those green consumers receive green electricity mixed with say, gas-generated electricity is irrelevant. It is also irrelevant that customers of non-green suppliers will be receiving some green electricity. No doubt it is more complicated than that, but it seems logical to me. Perhaps there is an expert out there who can enlighten us.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 7, 2022 11:51:11 GMT
This greenwash guff does grind my teeth... With OVO you can expect exactly the same mix of generation sources as from any other supplier... Because that's how the bloody grid works. But is that true? Yes, absolutely. The only thing that changes when you change supplier is who sends your invoice. Your connection to the grid is unchanged. And that mythical proportional balancing is exactly what they rely on to back their claims up. But they don't really stand up. What proportion of electricity consumption would you estimate is on green tariffs? Bear in mind consumer consumption is less than 40% of total national consumption... which is about the same as the proportion of "clean" electricity generated... Damn near 100% of consumers could be on these tariffs for there to approach some kind of non-surplus situation with clean/green generation... gridwatch.co.uk/renewables/percentgridwatch.co.uk/carbon-neutral/percent(Biomass is renewable, not carbon neutral; nuclear is carbon neutral, not renewable. Choose your preferred definition of "green".) Back in the early days, then - yes - there may have been a situation where promoting renewable input into the grid would benefit, but I doubt it, because back then the renewable demand was negligible.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 7, 2022 12:49:44 GMT
mine provides electric usage in near/soft realtime - probably a matter of a few seconds delay, so "realtime" (ish) for all domestic practical purposes. Gas however is 30 minute updates - I'm guessing there is something pretty inherent in that. EDIT: it is entirely sufficient for my having been able to figure out the actual (otherwise unknown) power usage of a number of items, simply by virtue of letting it be in a steady state and then switching things on/off. yes, it's quite simple the Electric meter and comms hub uses a small amount of electricity to speak to the network, because the gas is battery powered it wakes up every 30 minutes to send a reading to the hub. If it was more frequent and I've seen posts elsewhere asking why it can't be second by second ! the battery would either have to be much bigger or would need replacement every year to 18 months
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 7, 2022 13:08:54 GMT
Yes, absolutely. The only thing that changes when you change supplier is who sends your invoice. Your connection to the grid is unchanged. And that mythical proportional balancing is exactly what they rely on to back their claims up. But they don't really stand up. What proportion of electricity consumption would you estimate is on green tariffs? Bear in mind consumer consumption is less than 40% of total national consumption... which is about the same as the proportion of "clean" electricity generated... Damn near 100% of consumers could be on these tariffs for there to approach some kind of non-surplus situation with clean/green generation... gridwatch.co.uk/renewables/percentgridwatch.co.uk/carbon-neutral/percent(Biomass is renewable, not carbon neutral; nuclear is carbon neutral, not renewable. Choose your preferred definition of "green".) Back in the early days, then - yes - there may have been a situation where promoting renewable input into the grid would benefit, but I doubt it, because back then the renewable demand was negligible. people who think they only get green electrons are deluded ! a lot of the time particularly on cold still days there is not enough green energy produced to meet the demand of those that have paid for green. your meter or cables do not reject energy produced from coal or oil or gas, despite the fact that some people assume they do magically and listening to the muppets on the radio yesterday "My electric is all green I get everything I need from solar which charges batteries, in a winter I have to run a generator for a couple of hours to fill the batteries, and we have a wood burner that heats the house." lol I have solar this month I have produced 11 kWh November was 68, January 64, February 92 I use on average about 5kWh a day so those 4 months I am importing
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 9, 2022 17:12:02 GMT
Thanks for the information. Great thing about the Clamp meters is you dont need to do any wiring, so dont need to mess about with the permanently live wires that going into the meter.
I am not an electrician so might be off the mark. But I have a clamp meter and to measure the current (amps) for AC you have to clamp the live lead in isolation. This is normally impossible to do directly as live neutral and earth are normally sheathed together in plastic, except at the meter itself. I have made a work around for appliances which use a 13A plug. I connected a plug to a trailing socket with the live lead separated. I unplug the appliance, then plug in my adapter and plug the appliance into the adaptor socket. This appears to work. If any electrician is reading this please confirm or not. You can also do the procedure where you turn everything except one off and then use a clamp meter on the live lead going into your meter. But first turn everything off and check that you are using no electricity. I suspect this might be harder than you think.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Dec 9, 2022 17:25:03 GMT
My clamp from my Solar would be loose round a single cable it is designed to fit around something about 12mm in diameter
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2022 20:35:58 GMT
Given that we are talking AC not only do electrons not know if they came from a green source we know that they have been part of your copper since they were cast.
To know if you are using green energy you need to be hard wired onto solar or turbine.
Using wood burning....would be greenish if you were operating at high enough temp to reduce particulates.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 9, 2022 22:10:53 GMT
My clamp from my Solar would be loose round a single cable it is designed to fit around something about 12mm in diameter Mine is even bigger, but it does not need to be tight fit round the cable as it works. I suppose, from the electromagnetic field round the cable. When you use it do you clamp the live lead on it's own or do you clamp the cable carrying live, neutral and earth?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2022 8:44:40 GMT
youtube can explain
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