mogish
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Post by mogish on May 10, 2023 12:45:17 GMT
With stock markets performance recently, do you think investors may move back to P2P again?
The number of platforms has drastically reduced but there are still P2P options out there.
Money markets seem to drawing in millions, what's your take on this?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 10, 2023 15:00:16 GMT
Apart from too many people having got their fingers singed last time round, the risk vs reward is simply not there.
I don't want a return that's a little bit better than inflation. I want a return that far outstrips it, in order to provide a buffer for the inevitable losses.
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firedog
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Post by firedog on May 10, 2023 15:16:37 GMT
With stock markets performance recently, do you think investors may move back to P2P again? The number of platforms has drastically reduced but there are still P2P options out there. Money markets seem to drawing in millions, what's your take on this? I've certainly been putting more in – still less than I do the stock market, but definitely increasing. That said, I think the media are far less positive towards P2P as they might have been years ago, so I don't see huge numbers of new punters investing.
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Post by wiseclerk on May 10, 2023 15:20:14 GMT
The problem is mostly in the UK. I am investing in p2p since 2007 and since 2012 I had double digit returns every year. But I have >98% in EU platforms. I had a bit in Assetz, Ablrate, Bondmason & Moneything and all here in the forum know how that played out in the end (or at least in the recent years). The UK only one where I might invest more is Axiafunder.
That is not to say there is no risk in EU platforms. There is high risk too and many EU platforms failed past 2019, but the risk reward ratio is still intact in my view.
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Post by Harland Kearney on May 10, 2023 16:56:07 GMT
With stock markets performance recently, do you think investors may move back to P2P again? The number of platforms has drastically reduced but there are still P2P options out there. Money markets seem to drawing in millions, what's your take on this? I've certainly been putting more in – still less than I do the stock market, but definitely increasing. That said, I think the media are far less positive towards P2P as they might have been years ago, so I don't see huge numbers of new punters investing. I have also been adding too. But I think P2P like most investments is tax dependant. If you are a higher income or additional income earner P2P makes little sense in the grand scheme of things; minus IFISA (but these have their own signifcant risks) You could make more using MMF's in accumulation units to avoid the 50% tax charge ect & push to CGT, but that is only a recent trend due to highers rate & inverted yield curve in the USA. A great deal of my investments outside of Stocks have been in MMF & P2P. I've been finding Loanpad allowing LTD accounts to be very useful for cash drag protection as company savings accounts are lagging retail rates currently.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 10, 2023 17:08:23 GMT
The problem is mostly in the UK. Perhaps. Unfortunately, so am I. And so is my money. So, unless I want to introduce forex exposure into the calculations, and also political exposure with our current policy of isolationism, that's even less tempting now than it was back in the good ol' days.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on May 10, 2023 18:46:17 GMT
The problem is mostly in the UK. Perhaps. Unfortunately, so am I. And so is my money. So, unless I want to introduce forex exposure into the calculations, and also political exposure with our current policy of isolationism, that's even less tempting now than it was back in the good ol' days. It is BECAUSE most of my money (future income, house, cash, etc) is in the UK & Sterling that I want as much forex exposure as possible. I have too much in Sterling - eggs in one basket - and the more I have in FOREX (mostly via S&S) the better as far as I am concerned. I also don't trust the pound to hold it value long term any more, but that is more of a hunch/position - the FOREX is simply necessary diversification IMHO. Having said all that, I have very little left in P2P now. All the ISAs are full of other stuff, and outside of an ISA low coupon gilts offer a better (virtually tax-free) and super secure route for fixed income returns.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on May 10, 2023 20:02:36 GMT
So are we saying that money markets(perhaps in a Sipp)may be more advantageous and potentially less risky than P2P?
Some interesting posts btw.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on May 10, 2023 20:25:39 GMT
The problem I have is that the platforms in p2p are not sufficiently isolated from the underlying investments.
With "traditional" assets there are long established and reliable mechanisms that fully separate the assets you have bought from the trading platform. So if the stocks platform goes belly up you still own the shares and eventually can expect to access them. Moreover any cash you had with the broker is typically properly protected. None of that is true with P2P.
So they are not only far more likely to fail but protection when they do fail is minimal.
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mogish
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Post by mogish on May 10, 2023 20:51:54 GMT
The problem I have is that the platforms in p2p are not sufficiently isolated from the underlying investments. With "traditional" assets there are long established and reliable mechanisms that fully separate the assets you have bought from the trading platform. So if the stocks platform goes belly up you still own the shares and eventually can expect to access them. Moreover any cash you had with the broker is typically properly protected. None of that is true with P2P. So they are not only far more likely to fail but protection when they do fail is minimal. I'm sure investors in Lendy etc would agree with that.😣
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Post by mostlywrong on May 10, 2023 21:05:00 GMT
The problem I have is that the platforms in p2p are not sufficiently isolated from the underlying investments. With "traditional" assets there are long established and reliable mechanisms that fully separate the assets you have bought from the trading platform. So if the stocks platform goes belly up you still own the shares and eventually can expect to access them. Moreover any cash you had with the broker is typically properly protected. None of that is true with P2P. So they are not only far more likely to fail but protection when they do fail is minimal. I would like that to be correct but several brokers have failed in the last 10-15 years and those customers affected have had a traumatic time accessing their investments.
I hope that the major brokers are pretty secure but there is a scintilla of doubt in my mind and I therefore hold my major accounts with different brokers.
It costs me more but I have relative peace of mind.
I spotted something brewing last week. I emphasise that it had nothing to do with trading accounts but it involved one or two building societies recommending, to their customers, financial partners that turned out to be less than financially secure.
I will try and find the article.
MW
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on May 10, 2023 21:09:57 GMT
The problem I have is that the platforms in p2p are not sufficiently isolated from the underlying investments. With "traditional" assets there are long established and reliable mechanisms that fully separate the assets you have bought from the trading platform. So if the stocks platform goes belly up you still own the shares and eventually can expect to access them. Moreover any cash you had with the broker is typically properly protected. None of that is true with P2P. So they are not only far more likely to fail but protection when they do fail is minimal. I'm sure investors in Lendy etc would agree with that.😣 Sadly I'm one of them. Ditto FundingSecure, Colateral and even Moneything. All headline acts on this site when I started my p2p career at the end of 2016.
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macq
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Post by macq on May 10, 2023 21:42:43 GMT
So are we saying that money markets(perhaps in a Sipp)may be more advantageous and potentially less risky than P2P? Some interesting posts btw. I can't say whether its advantageous or not as each case is different but i think its fair to say that its many levels below p2p in risk (i guess there must always be some risk even if it feels like its virtually zero just because its invested & not cash in a bank/BS) Rates on funds over the last few years have been minimal but Something like the Royal London short term money fund is earning close to or equivalent of the SONIA rate @ 4.18% before any fee's/charges for pretty much instant access.There is also a current thread on the MSE forum discussing the pro's & cons of MM funds plus the fund from Vanguard etc and also the ERNS etf among others
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Post by overthehill on May 11, 2023 8:30:21 GMT
So are we saying that money markets(perhaps in a Sipp)may be more advantageous and potentially less risky than P2P? Some interesting posts btw. I can't say whether its advantageous or not as each case is different but i think its fair to say that its many levels below p2p in risk (i guess there must always be some risk even if it feels like its virtually zero just because its invested & not cash in a bank/BS) Rates on funds over the last few years have been minimal but Something like the Royal London short term money fund is earning close to or equivalent of the SONIA rate @ 4.18% before any fee's/charges for pretty much instant access.There is also a current thread on the MSE forum discussing the pro's & cons of MM funds plus the fund from Vanguard etc and also the ERNS etf among others How do you know the fund is going to return 4.18% ? It aims to outperform the SONIA rate. Do you just have to wait and see what your interest payment is ?
HL is paying around 2.6% on SIPP drawdown cash which is poor but generous for them.
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Post by j2o on May 11, 2023 11:02:23 GMT
How do you know the fund is going to return 4.18% ? It aims to outperform the SONIA rate. Do you just have to wait and see what your interest payment is ?
HL is paying around 2.6% on SIPP drawdown cash which is poor but generous for them.
Beware HL charges start at 0.45% for funds (capped at £4K pa), whereas holding stocks & ETFs are capped at just £45 / £200 pa within an ISA / SIPP. So you may want to consider an ETF instead of a MMF for amounts greater than £10K / £45K, e.g. www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/x/xtrackers-ii-gbp-rate-swap-ucits-etf
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