upland
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Post by upland on Aug 15, 2015 7:02:37 GMT
I dont know whether it is my imagination but I wondered whether property loans were becoming harder to figure out what one is exposed to. I am sure that each project SPV / loan is covered by assets as stated but the underlying company (ies) structures may be a bit more difficult to evaluate. Its not helped by the names for different often being the same which I think obscures things. Any thoughts ?
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Post by bonfemme on Aug 16, 2015 10:05:31 GMT
I dont know whether it is my imagination but I wondered whether property loans were becoming harder to figure out what one is exposed to. I am sure that each project SPV / loan is covered by assets as stated but the underlying company (ies) structures may be a bit more difficult to evaluate. Its not helped by the names for different often being the same which I think obscures things. Any thoughts ? I totally agree. I'm fed up with having to view the financials tab to identify which previous loans have been taken out by the borrower. I then have to track the previous loans in the Loan Parts tab to find out my exposure (sometimes I buy second hand parts so they wouldn't show in the bids section of the earlier tranches). The names of the property loans are extremely misleading. There are various London Property Loan 1s so when a London Property Loan 2 comes along, there is no simple way of knowing if you have parts in number one or not. You can't even take any notice of the icon for You Are Lending to This Business as it's not at all accurate. I'm beginning to wonder if it is deliberately confusing in the hope of attracting more bids from lenders who would not place them if they knew their true exposure. I'm starting to get very annoyed with it.
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 16, 2015 10:50:08 GMT
Agreed it is complex, especially when there is sometimes an element of security provided for one project from the possible excess security assets on another project by the same borrower, but on separate unlinked SPVs. I am not saying this is wrong, and it can be beneficial. But it sure is complicated if you wish to know what is going on.
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upland
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Post by upland on Aug 16, 2015 11:09:51 GMT
I totally agree. I'm fed up with having to view the financials tab to identify which previous loans have been taken out by the borrower. I then have to track the previous loans in the Loan Parts tab to find out my exposure (sometimes I buy second hand parts so they wouldn't show in the bids section of the earlier tranches). The names of the property loans are extremely misleading. There are various London Property Loan 1s so when a London Property Loan 2 comes along, there is no simple way of knowing if you have parts in number one or not. You can't even take any notice of the icon for You Are Lending to This Business as it's not at all accurate. I'm beginning to wonder if it is deliberately confusing in the hope of attracting more bids from lenders who would not place them if they knew their true exposure. I'm starting to get very annoyed with it. We think alike , I did wonder who would benefit if it were as obscure as it seems. It would be sad to find that ones 1% diversification was actually %3. We have not yet had time for this emerging market to be tested yet. As I understand it most of the property loans interest repayment is actually a return of capital because the development is not cash generative until refinance or sale. Its going to take some time for the real practical picture to appear.
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upland
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Post by upland on Aug 16, 2015 11:16:01 GMT
Agreed it is complex, especially when there is sometimes an element of security provided for one project from the possible excess security assets on another project by the same borrower, but on separate unlinked SPVs. I am not saying this is wrong, and it can be beneficial. But it sure is complicated if you wish to know what is going on. I feel that this is all so new that there is a lot to take in and understand. I believe that in investment ignorance is bliss (until it goes wrong). Are you referring to some of these loans that I think benefit two SPVs?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 11:26:03 GMT
Obscurity lead to the Sub-Prime crash. FC should man up and resolve this issue soonest. I think a note to the FCA is required.  |
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blender
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Post by blender on Aug 16, 2015 18:50:53 GMT
Agreed it is complex, especially when there is sometimes an element of security provided for one project from the possible excess security assets on another project by the same borrower, but on separate unlinked SPVs. I am not saying this is wrong, and it can be beneficial. But it sure is complicated if you wish to know what is going on. I feel that this is all so new that there is a lot to take in and understand. I believe that in investment ignorance is bliss (until it goes wrong). Are you referring to some of these loans that I think benefit two SPVs? I was thinking of cross security arrangements between two or more unlinked SPVs, though personally I hope not to get near the endgame of property loans.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Aug 17, 2015 14:03:59 GMT
I was hoping to avoid the endgame too, then I notice 10077 is already at that stage .. see my note about failure to list it for sale (under the that website again again thread). Luckily I don't seem to have a huge heap.
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baldpate
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Post by baldpate on Aug 17, 2015 16:57:50 GMT
On the theme of 10077, 7349 (the first tranche of the same project) is due to pay back on 20th August - just 3 days from now. I'm already bracing myself for that loan comment that begins "Unfortunately, ...".
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Post by transo on Aug 17, 2015 22:03:47 GMT
From a well-known property website it looks like only 3 of the 7 flats are still for sale (and they're showing as "reserved" - if you believe these flags from estate agents). Can't find any evidence of successful sales of the other 4 having completed, but then the land registry details tend to take a while to filter through to the property websites.
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am
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Post by am on Aug 18, 2015 19:32:47 GMT
From a well-known property website it looks like only 3 of the 7 flats are still for sale (and they're showing as "reserved" - if you believe these flags from estate agents). Can't find any evidence of successful sales of the other 4 having completed, but then the land registry details tend to take a while to filter through to the property websites. They only need to have sold one flat to pay off the first tranche.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Aug 20, 2015 8:57:08 GMT
7349 won't be repaid today. They've said the loan will repay on the 21st and then the funds will be a few days late.
They won't be charging any late fees though. Wish my bank was so generous!
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am
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Post by am on Aug 20, 2015 11:34:39 GMT
7349 won't be repaid today. They've said the loan will repay on the 21st and then the funds will be a few days late. They won't be charging any late fees though. Wish my bank was so generous! Where was this said? - it's not on the repayments tab (which displays as "processing"), and I don't see it on the in-house forum either. 7349 was one of the earlier property loans, before FC changed the terms to incorporate interest on overruns.
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ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Aug 20, 2015 12:13:12 GMT
7349 won't be repaid today. They've said the loan will repay on the 21st and then the funds will be a few days late. They won't be charging any late fees though. Wish my bank was so generous! Where was this said? - it's not on the repayments tab (which displays as "processing"), and I don't see it on the in-house forum either. 7349 was one of the earlier property loans, before FC changed the terms to incorporate interest on overruns. I'd emailed them about this a couple of days ago. Their reply came through either late yesterday or early today.
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upland
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Post by upland on Aug 26, 2015 11:52:08 GMT
The rate of increase in property loans with the same name keeps going up. There seems to be no stopping to this confusion. Its a lot of trouble to work out how much you are actually exposed to.
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