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Post by caveman38 on Mar 31, 2016 10:50:35 GMT
Please help/advise. I am beginning to worry what sort of a mess I'm potentially leaving my wife in case something happens to me. Although in my 60's, I'm very fit and without any major problems but am concerned. I already have a wad of current accounts to take advantage of the 5% deposits and regular savers drip fed from 123 accounts. But these can be closed at a moments notice as can my remaining shares and other investments. If I am right that probate won't release to my wife monies that I leave behind until all the estate is accounted for. Potentially it could take years because of my P2P holdings. Or would P2P platforms voluntarily or with pressure reimburse for any loans held and take it upon themselves to sell them on the SM, or would the executor have to wait like everyone else for the loan parts to sell or be repaid. Anyone had any experience of this or knowledge that may help. I'd love to invest more as I have confidence in the platforms I currently have money with RS, SS and MT but rather that contact them individually at the moment, seek some guidance fro you pro's.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 31, 2016 11:24:06 GMT
Please help/advise. I am beginning to worry what sort of a mess I'm potentially leaving my wife in case something happens to me. Although in my 60's, I'm very fit and without any major problems but am concerned. I already have a wad of current accounts to take advantage of the 5% deposits and regular savers drip fed from 123 accounts. But these can be closed at a moments notice as can my remaining shares and other investments. If I am right that probate won't release to my wife monies that I leave behind until all the estate is accounted for. Potentially it could take years because of my P2P holdings. Or would P2P platforms voluntarily or with pressure reimburse for any loans held and take it upon themselves to sell them on the SM, or would the executor have to wait like everyone else for the loan parts to sell or be repaid. Anyone had any experience of this or knowledge that may help. I'd love to invest more as I have confidence in the platforms I currently have money with RS, SS and MT but rather that contact them individually at the moment, seek some guidance fro you pro's. There's two answers, really... There's the official answer - yes, you're down to the goodwill of any platforms that don't have published processes. Then there's the unofficial answer - make sure you leave a note of your passwords somewhere, and instructions on how to sell out...
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 31, 2016 11:37:50 GMT
This is an important subject which I think all platforms should answer here and now in a maximum of three clear and unambiguous sentences.
I'm sure Chris and Kay and Ed and Kev and abl and Mat and SS, and hopefully a few other reps that we "know" will have something relevant to write. (Also add a similar clear paragraph on each platform's website explaing exactly what the procedure will be on the decease of an investor).
What will you do when my executor contacts you informing you of my death, and asks for all holdings to be sold* and the proceeds to be transferred to my estate?
(Don't waste time with the "each case is assessed according to its individual circumstances" line.)
*In particular, it will not do to say that a loan made shortly before my death must run its course for almost five years before the executor can complete his/her duties. Platforms with no secondary market need to address this as a priority.
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Mar 31, 2016 11:54:52 GMT
As adrianc states leave a clear list of platforms, current investments & a separate list of usernames/password (obviously in a secure place away from unwanted attention) but can be made legal by granting an enduring Power of Attorney (whilst alive but potentially incapacitated) - that obviously assumes that you completely trust your other half not to liquidate your holdings & run off with milkman 
Also no harm in talking them through how it all works whilst you are both in good health, again assumes that they are interested & willing to learn
If you leave very unexpectedly they should be able to manage the accounts under a grant of probate - I liquidated insurance policy, Stocks & shares etc (before p2p existed) with very little hassle as most firms are understanding in such circumstances; you may need to check with those specific holdings that are not designed for quick liquidation or platforms without a SM.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 31, 2016 11:58:00 GMT
I am wondering whether the passwords issue should be unnecessary if a platform deals directly with the executor on a legal basis in liquidating assets. Can the platforms do this?
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pom
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Post by pom on Mar 31, 2016 12:08:59 GMT
If I am right that probate won't release to my wife monies that I leave behind until all the estate is accounted for.
You only need to have the death date valuations and any inheritance tax paid in order to get probate. So although liquidating some assets can take a while it doesn't stop you getting hold of more liquid ones in the meantime (banks will cough up as soon as they're presented with probate docs, but also any bank accounts in joint names will be switched over to just the survivor pdq without needing probate - also for smaller bank balances they may decide they don't need probate to release - I actually had to explicitly tell one bank that no I did not want the money transferred anywhere else just yet thanks). Worst case as far as p2p is concerned should be that they transfer the ownership but if they have no free SM it might be necessary to wait, pay a fee for early release etc based on whatever the existing circumstances are. Maybe some will relax some of the rules. I would say the best thing you can do is just make sure you don't overcommit and always have enough liquidity somewhere for any eventuality - and that perhaps includes enough accessible cash to pay HMRC if IHT is likely to be due - its one of the few things banks will release money for before probate... but if the bill is more than the liquid cash things might start getting tricky.
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pom
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Post by pom on Mar 31, 2016 12:15:43 GMT
I am wondering whether the passwords issue should be unnecessary if a platform deals directly with the executor on a legal basis in liquidating assets. Can the platforms do this? If you do it the correct way - notify everyone about the death, let them freeze the accounts then wait for probate before unfreezing them again then nope you won't need the passwords. The reason there was mention of "unofficial" is because you could potentially log in and sell everything out without even notifying the platforms that the person has died....which would be highly dodgy
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Mar 31, 2016 13:19:54 GMT
Lenders need to consider both what happens if they are incapacitated and what happens on death. - If you are incapacitated but have given someone power of attorney (which you should set up while you are still fine), the attorney should be able to get access to the account and sell the tradeable loans. Note that the power of attorney will die with you.
- After you die, your executor should be able to sell the tradeable loans, once they have probate.
The real issue is non-tradeable loans (typically bad debts and those with "issues"). The estate will be stuck with them, potentially for many years, unless it is possible to transfer the assets out of the estate "off market", eg by transferring the account (or what's left after everything else has been sold) to one of the beneficiaries. The extent to which platforms are willing or able to do this is not clear. I'd also like the option to donate bad debts to charity (similar to ShareGift for shares). The issue should go away if platforms make it possible to trade bad or doubtful debts on-platform. In that case, if push came to shove, the executor could sell them to a beneficiary at a mutually acceptable price. Valuation may not be easy but that's an issue anyway. |
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 31, 2016 13:31:42 GMT
I'd also like the option to donate bad debts to charity (similar to ShareGift for shares).
That's an interesting idea. When I'm gone I don't want any of that lingering on, so when the executor is finalising "my" exit from a platform (bar those bad debts which still might provide some recovery) the platform could be pre authorised by me to remit such recoveries to a named charity. (Say six months or one year after my demise).
My estate is reasonably simple to execute, so I think a year is plenty of time - others may feel a different time span appropriate.
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treeman
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Post by treeman on Mar 31, 2016 13:50:12 GMT
I think the really important bit is letting family/someone you trust know WHERE all your dosh is - Banks/BS/Platforms/Brokers names at least, not how much/logins etc necessarily. Up to you how detailed you want to get.
A list of accounts will save a great deal of time and work.
I was executor for my recently late mother and it took ages to track all the bits and pieces down. Old BS accts etc etc.
My missus and my daughter have a password protected excel book with the details (not enough to log in!) - which gets updated and passed on periodically.
At least they'd know where to start looking for the loot.
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Post by caveman38 on Mar 31, 2016 14:00:43 GMT
Thanks for the feedback. I have already thought of passwords and have files with all investments etc. with written explanations. In fact I have tried to be as helpful as possible with the exception of the number of accounts etc. to be dealt with. What still is one of my main concerns is whether the P2P platforms would be accommodating in releasing the finds and placing the outstanding loans on the SM themselves. I have heard of 6-12 month probates where for example missing shares materialise or minor financial benefits to the beneficiary hindering the probate. If waiting for loan paybacks was seen in the same light would the rest of the estate be able to be settled and just await payback of loans in the future. Where do the platforms stand on this accommodating or rigid to their rules.
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brin
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Post by brin on Mar 31, 2016 14:38:20 GMT
Shown my wife how to get her hands on everything before she announces i have departed this life, had to cover my tracks with my now cunning avatar disguise to make sure no one knows who i really am...   |
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Post by caveman38 on Mar 31, 2016 14:45:15 GMT
Shown my wife how to get her hands on everything before she announces i have departed this life, had to cover my tracks with my now cunning avatar disguise to make sure no one knows who i really am... If your loans don't sell too quickly on SM, she may have to keep it quiet for quite a while. You may pen and ink a bit by then.
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brin
I am trying to stay calm.
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Post by brin on Mar 31, 2016 14:51:00 GMT
Shown my wife how to get her hands on everything before she announces i have departed this life, had to cover my tracks with my now cunning avatar disguise to make sure no one knows who i really am... If your loans don't sell too quickly on SM, she may have to keep it quiet for quite a while. You may pen and ink a bit by then. Your right, maybe i haven't thought this through properly, a BIG POT of poo pourri may be needed.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 31, 2016 15:21:08 GMT
If your loans don't sell too quickly on SM, she may have to keep it quiet for quite a while. You may pen and ink a bit by then. Your right, maybe i haven't thought this through properly, a BIG POT of poo pourri may be needed. I think that might have the opposite effect ... pot pourri on the other hand 
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