ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on Apr 26, 2016 15:54:33 GMT
Looks like others might struggle to fill I guess with tc having 2nd charge and the extra security over the company has made people a bit unsure of this one
|
|
ianj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 654
Likes: 519
|
Post by ianj on Apr 26, 2016 16:29:16 GMT
Looks like others might struggle to fill I guess with tc having 2nd charge and the extra security over the company has made people a bit unsure of this one With F&P's links to 'another place', perhaps lenders are waiting for the 'extra interest' incentives frequently seen there when bidding stalls.
|
|
ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on Apr 26, 2016 17:23:25 GMT
It be up to MT if they decide to offer any bonus or not, they have already lent the funds. If they want to get the money back quickly to launch a few other loans they may need to like they did a few weeks ago. Although it looks like nothing that close on the horizon that they need the money for so they might be happy leaving it as it is for the time being (then any extra interest they get can pay for the bonus when they want rid of it so costs them nothing or very little)
|
|
ianj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 654
Likes: 519
|
Post by ianj on Apr 26, 2016 18:30:57 GMT
It be up to MT if they decide to offer any bonus or not, they have already lent the funds. If they want to get the money back quickly to launch a few other loans they may need to like they did a few weeks ago. Although it looks like nothing that close on the horizon that they need the money for so they might be happy leaving it as it is for the time being (then any extra interest they get can pay for the bonus when they want rid of it so costs them nothing or very little) How very true! In the words of Captain Mainwaring " I wondered if anyone would spot that".
|
|
ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on Apr 28, 2016 8:11:26 GMT
Looks like this one has stalled, how long do we think it be till cash back is offered to take it over
|
|
pom
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,922
Likes: 1,244
|
Post by pom on Apr 28, 2016 9:00:25 GMT
Based on the latest pipeline updates I'd guess MT don't need the float for anything else just yet, so maybe a while til they need to make that decision
|
|
gurberly
Member of DD Central
Posts: 168
Likes: 98
|
Post by gurberly on Apr 28, 2016 17:28:17 GMT
I skipped this one as feeling a bit negative about it. It became "too complicated". I could not figure out who I was lending to/who controlled the company and the asset the security was based on and that I was lending to. The LTV, together with the secondry loan from TC etc seemed very tight... then being at 10% on property to which I am probably over exposed too anyway... well I need to balance things out a bit.
That said, I do want to support local UK businesses develop and expand..... conundrum...
Phil
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on May 1, 2016 18:15:50 GMT
After more research I'm becoming increasingly confident that the MT first charge is well covered by the security, although the land could take ages to sell. My reasoning is as follows:
The valuation report states "The subject does not benefit from the planning consent for which we have based our valuation upon." (pdf page 6) and "In its existing condition subject to the assumptions of a granted planning consent for the applicant’s proposed scheme is: £790,000" (pdf page 26).
Which is not a lot of use in trying to assess the value of the land in its current condition, with "The site already has planning consent for uses falling within Class B1, B2 and B8" (pdf page 5) i.e. Business, General Industrial and Storage usages. There are various scenarios, albeit relatively unlikely, which could see the forced resale of the land in its present condition without any development plans having being approved or implemented.
We know from the F&P info pack that the borrower is paying £725k for the site which extends to 1.95 hectares, and the MT 1st charge loan is for £475k.
What we need is a means to sense check what 1.95 hectares of brownfield / industrial land might be worth in the East Midlands. Fortunately I've found a document published by the government that allows just that. www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/488041/Land_values_2015.pdf Table 3 on page 14 shows the value of a typical industrial site in the East Midlands as £450k / hectare (or £375k / hectare in Yorkshire & Humberside) which would imply 1.95 hectares might be worth around £730k - £895k.
Or put another way our 1st charge of £475k is the equivalent of £244k / hectare.
The valuation report makes note of the sites rural location not being ideal for attracting interest in the smaller units being proposed in phase 2 of the development, and "Development sites appeal to a limited number of purchasers when compared to completed properties." (pdf page 5) so its probably reasonable to infer the site would be slow to resell with or without the planning approval.
On reflection, the 10% yield whilst still feeling slightly low, is probably not too unreasonable.
|
|
ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on May 1, 2016 19:17:43 GMT
I am sure the land is worth enought to cover the MT loan, my main concern is if it goes bad then TC can pull the plug and like you said could take ages to sell and TC would be in the driving seat so they will not go for a quick sale they will wait till they get either back all of there loan value or a significant proporiton, one that they could sell to the investors ie small loss, this could take awhile and MT will have very little say in the matter even though they have the 1st charge
|
|
jonah
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,031
Likes: 1,113
|
Post by jonah on May 1, 2016 19:40:24 GMT
mrclondon thank you for the obvious time and effort you have put into considering this loan. Whilst I'm still torn over this loan personally (not helped by having hit my platform limit) that post typifies the strength that forums such as this can bring... Wisdom of clouds etc. Back on this loan.... ben I assume you mean TC could 'be in the driving seat' due to their debentures, as a first charge can normally select the receiver etc I thought?
|
|
stevio
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,065
Likes: 894
|
Post by stevio on May 11, 2016 15:05:30 GMT
Did these ever reach zero and get completely funded?
If not, I presume this is MT's money tied up waiting for these to be fully funded?
|
|
ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on May 11, 2016 15:15:59 GMT
at the moment not fully funded, the SS loan that repaid today might help. I think at the moment MT do not need the funds for much so probably quite happy to keep it there earning 10% extra on top although I would think if it does not go soon they will have to pay cashback to clear it so the extra interest will help towards that
|
|
|
Post by flobberchops on May 11, 2016 15:34:47 GMT
I think three of the five tranches got fully funded - at the time of writing a fourth tranche has about £100 available on the SM.
As I mentioned before I think this loan was, to be glib, a bit of a turkey, delivering neither the short-term period or 12% return MT investors are accustomed to, and being of a dubious valuation to boot.
At the moment I imagine people are waiting to jump on board the two 12% loans going live at 4pm tomorrow. (I won't be missing these ones!)
|
|
ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on May 11, 2016 16:01:51 GMT
I think three of the five tranches got fully funded - at the time of writing a fourth tranche has about £100 available on the SM. As I mentioned before I think this loan was, to be glib, a bit of a turkey, delivering neither the short-term period or 12% return MT investors are accustomed to, and being of a dubious valuation to boot. At the moment I imagine people are waiting to jump on board the two 12% loans going live at 4pm tomorrow. (I won't be missing these ones!) 3 of the 5 tranches still to fund aobut £120,000 in total. With the tommorow ones I think I have enough cars and already have plenty in the other tranches, that being said I have some funds from a certain SS loan that needs a new home
|
|
stevio
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,065
Likes: 894
|
Post by stevio on May 11, 2016 17:00:07 GMT
I don't seem to be able to sell the small amount I put into these (the longest one) so guess it hadn't been fully funded yet
|
|