stokeloans
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Post by stokeloans on May 27, 2016 18:32:52 GMT
In light of PBL 020 going into default should SS suspend trading on all loans that go into default ? What's your view ? Could make a good poll question for CD  |
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ben
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Post by ben on May 27, 2016 18:41:20 GMT
If someone wants to buy it then it is up to them as long as it is clearly labelled as a default.
Someone might have local knowledge that others do not and know that the asset will easy cover the loan repayments for example, although I think in think in this case people will be buying it with the expectation that SS will pay out whatever happens.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on May 27, 2016 18:43:31 GMT
In light of PBL 020 going into default should SS suspend trading on all loans that go into default ? What's your view ? Could make a good poll question for CD Upto Savingstream IMO.
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Post by grodecki on May 27, 2016 18:58:17 GMT
Believe under FCA regulations they need to allow trading.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on May 27, 2016 19:10:26 GMT
Believe under FCA regulations they need to allow trading. Nope. AC dont where loans are Insolvent and AC are benchmark for playing it safe regulatory wise.
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Post by earthbound on May 27, 2016 19:39:33 GMT
I would say not, same buyer just took 15k of the g****n c****e on the SM.  |
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Post by GSV3MIaC on May 27, 2016 21:20:56 GMT
I think the feeding frenzy has slowed down rather a lot. Not before ours sold though.
More generic question .. we/I know the FC generally defaults loans on a Thursday .. can we tentatively assume that SS will default them on a Friday (when the updates seem to be coming out .. almost regularly now)??
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 27, 2016 22:32:07 GMT
I think the feeding frenzy has slowed down rather a lot. Yes, definitely. The amount left for sale is £34k now. It will be interesting to see whether there's a big jump immediately after midnight, as people try to gain one more day's interest before selling. Which raises an interesting question... The default notice says "Interest will continue to accrue, but will not be credited until sale of security completes." Have SS said anything about the effect date of this change? Is it today, when the notice appeared? Or are they saying there will be no interest at all credited for PBL020 next week on 1/Jun, such that it effectively switched into accrual mode back on 1/May? That would seem to be a bit unfair to investors who were holding parts before today and expecting to receive an interest payment on 1/Jun as usual. Perhaps savingstream would care to clarify the situation.
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Post by earthbound on May 27, 2016 22:39:22 GMT
I think the feeding frenzy has slowed down rather a lot. Yes, definitely. The amount left for sale is £34k now. It will be interesting to see whether there's a big jump immediately after midnight, as people try to gain one more day's interest before selling. Which raises an interesting question... The default notice says "Interest will continue to accrue, but will not be credited until sale of security completes." Perhaps savingstream would care to clarify the situation. which begs the question, "what if the final sale price is not enough to pay the accrued interest" i have seen a lot of this loan sell today on the SM and i wonder if buyers think the old t&cs also guarantee their interest payments, afaiu the lenders are only guaranteed their initial investment.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on May 28, 2016 2:16:26 GMT
Yes, definitely. The amount left for sale is £34k now. It will be interesting to see whether there's a big jump immediately after midnight, as people try to gain one more day's interest before selling. Which raises an interesting question... The default notice says "Interest will continue to accrue, but will not be credited until sale of security completes." Perhaps savingstream would care to clarify the situation. which begs the question, "what if the final sale price is not enough to pay the accrued interest" i have seen a lot of this loan sell today on the SM and i wonder if buyers think the old t&cs also guarantee their interest payments, afaiu the lenders are only guaranteed their initial investment. Firstly, there doesn't seem to have been much more, if any, PBL020 offered for sale after midnight. At the moment I see £32k left to sell, and £2400 has been bought since midnight. As for the question of interest payment, some critical words missing from the end of the default notice are "... and then only if the sale proceeds are sufficient." And I note that the explanation of how the PF works says "The Provision Fund exists in order to compensate investors in the event that the sale of the security does not result in full repayment of the loan." and "Saving Stream investors can make an application to the Provision Fund for compensation if their initial investment cannot be fully repaid due to a shortfall in the sale of the security." There's no suggestion that the PF would be used to cover accrued but unpaid interest. I haven't a clue whether these omissions were accidental or intentional.
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daveb4
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Post by daveb4 on May 28, 2016 5:14:26 GMT
I really do not think so.
Newbies aware and all that.
As mentioned before not everyone understands how protracted these things can take as well as the costs involved.
Appreciate I am not speaking about this case specifically but quite often after administrator costs, solicitor fees, easily 6-12 months later before sale, usually on commercial lending a sale at between 50-80% of land value, there is usually 10-40% of losses.
This is the risk we all take and put down to experience and offset on our tax bill at the end of the year?
There again are SS or Lendy going to guarantee to cough up out of the 'provision' fund? If they are, we might as well all keep our lending until the end as we are guaranteed our money back. It would certainly slow down the mass selling on the secondary market.
Is the provision fund the reason why this specific loan was not sold 149 days ago by everyone? Prediction now is secondary market to be increased in low day loans in case of further defaults and depending on what happens to PBL020 over next few months could increase this activity?
As I have mentioned before on this site I am not sure SS should and will pay out for everything eg on a small loan in default they may only need to pay out £30-£40k but on large ones could easily be £500k plus - two of them and all the protective fund has gone and would probably put SS into higher risk investment band again? Hopefully their decision will be on a case by case basis and I think could be a crucial point if PBL 020 does not achieve 70% LTV (as per valuation?!)return.
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Post by earthbound on May 28, 2016 6:06:03 GMT
which begs the question, "what if the final sale price is not enough to pay the accrued interest" i have seen a lot of this loan sell today on the SM and i wonder if buyers think the old t&cs also guarantee their interest payments, afaiu the lenders are only guaranteed their initial investment. Firstly, there doesn't seem to have been much more, if any, PBL020 offered for sale after midnight. At the moment I see £32k left to sell, and £2400 has been bought since midnight. yes i watched too, must say i was surprised, i only watched for 10 mins or so, but it was very quiet. 7am still £32k and loads of short dated stuff popping up as well.
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tx
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Post by tx on May 28, 2016 14:12:55 GMT
I asked SS support team this exact question before and they say they allow it as investors should always know the risk in P2P. Well, fair enough.
What I don't understand is, why would fellow investors buys loan parts with negative days? and even more so, with the latest defaulted loan, when I looked at the recent activities, there are fellow investors buying defaulted loan parts! I am very puzzled.
As far as I am concerned from my profession, loan with negative days already triggered credit event, technically already defaulted. I wouldn't get anywhere close to those loans.
But I am very interested to hear from those who bought defaulted loans and/or loan parts with negative days. What is your rationales? Maybe your extensive local knowledge on particular loans? Thanks.
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stokeloans
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Post by stokeloans on May 28, 2016 14:19:30 GMT
I asked SS support team this exact question before and they say they allow it as investors should always know the risk in P2P. Well, fair enough. What I don't understand is, why would fellow investors buys loan parts with negative days? and even more so, with the latest defaulted loan, when I looked at the recent activities, there are fellow investors buying defaulted loan parts! I am very puzzled. As far as I am concerned from my profession, loan with negative days already triggered credit event, technically already defaulted. I wouldn't get anywhere close to those loans. But I am very interested to hear from those who bought defaulted loans and/or loan parts with negative days. What is your rationales? Maybe your extensive local knowledge on particular loans? Thanks. I look at each loan on merit and not just the loan details themselves but the updates.Some loans get extended...with the interest paid upfront....some get converted to DFLs. But no,I wouldn't touch PBL 020 with a barge pole
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Post by GSV3MIaC on May 28, 2016 14:26:18 GMT
I didn't buy, I sold; but I do hold 'negative days' parts. Historically SS have been poor ('lousy') at keeping the 'days left' numbers up to date, and at one point nearly half the loans on the platform were negative days, iirc. But they were still paying interest, they had just overrun on repaying the capital .. 'it happens'. You have to decide if you'd rather have £500 in each of two loans, one of which is 'late' or all £1k in the one which isn't late .. or maybe check the details and see which one has a value you can extract your 70% from with some confidence, if you need to.
Personally I hate the ones that repay early more than the ones which repay late (as long as they DO repay!) .. it means I have to wake up, log in, and find something else to do with the unexpected cash. Easy for me (small amounts) but tough for the £200k-per-loan guys/gals. That is probably why many are hanging onto PBL020 .. no-place to put it, even if they could sell, and maybe why some folks are even buying it ('probable 12% better than certain 0%').
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