|
|
Post by chielamangus on May 30, 2016 8:53:12 GMT
Rates may then go up, but will the <differential> rate go up or down? I would guess it will go down. e.g. rates go up to 10% and returns go up to 13 or 14% - differential rate only 4% (numbers plucked out of the air to demonstrate, not a prediction) Brian I think more importantly in this scenario, asset prices would be collapsing leading to much higher chances of capital losses on loans. I would not like to be in any commercial property bridges with 70% LTV in this scenario. People investing in SS and FS in particular beware. But all this is irrelevant as we'll be plunged into WW3 according to Tweedledumb and there won't be any assets left anyway. Experience has shown that we cannot believe anything that Tweedledumb & Tweedledee say or predict so I'll be voting on a question of principle - do I want to be part of a democracy where Government can be periodically be changed if the people choose, or do I want to be run by a technocratic establishment in Brussels that can never be removed? The answer is obvious and any short term movements in financial indicators are of no consequence in the longer term picture.
|
|
bg
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,368 
Likes: 1,929
|
Post by bg on May 30, 2016 10:41:55 GMT
I think more importantly in this scenario, asset prices would be collapsing leading to much higher chances of capital losses on loans. I would not like to be in any commercial property bridges with 70% LTV in this scenario. People investing in SS and FS in particular beware. But all this is irrelevant as we'll be plunged into WW3 according to Tweedledumb and there won't be any assets left anyway. Experience has shown that we cannot believe anything that Tweedledumb & Tweedledee say or predict so I'll be voting on a question of principle - do I want to be part of a democracy where Government can be periodically be changed if the people choose, or do I want to be run by a technocratic establishment in Brussels that can never be removed? The answer is obvious and any short term movements in financial indicators are of no consequence in the longer term picture. Well I disagree. The EU parliament is an elected institution. The MEPs can be removed by the people in the european elections. Besides, I can't think of any legislation that has been imposed on us by a technocratic establishment in Brussels (I can only think you mean the EU Courts of justice). All significant laws are passed by the UK parliament. If you would rather have Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson running the country on a platform of fear then vote as you will.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 10,848
Likes: 11,077
|
Post by ilmoro on May 30, 2016 12:00:29 GMT
But all this is irrelevant as we'll be plunged into WW3 according to Tweedledumb and there won't be any assets left anyway. Experience has shown that we cannot believe anything that Tweedledumb & Tweedledee say or predict so I'll be voting on a question of principle - do I want to be part of a democracy where Government can be periodically be changed if the people choose, or do I want to be run by a technocratic establishment in Brussels that can never be removed? The answer is obvious and any short term movements in financial indicators are of no consequence in the longer term picture. Well I disagree. The EU parliament is an elected institution. The MEPs can be removed by the people in the european elections. Besides, I can't think of any legislation that has been imposed on us by a technocratic establishment in Brussels (I can only think you mean the EU Courts of justice). All significant laws are passed by the UK parliament. If you would rather have Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson running the country on a platform of fear then vote as you will. EU regulations do not require domestic legislation to be legally binding unless covered by treaty opt out. EU directives require domestic legislation, they tell govt what the policy is just not how to implement it. They can have legal force even if not national law.
|
|
bg
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 1,929
|
Post by bg on May 30, 2016 12:13:17 GMT
Well I disagree. The EU parliament is an elected institution. The MEPs can be removed by the people in the european elections. Besides, I can't think of any legislation that has been imposed on us by a technocratic establishment in Brussels (I can only think you mean the EU Courts of justice). All significant laws are passed by the UK parliament. If you would rather have Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson running the country on a platform of fear then vote as you will. EU regulations do not require domestic legislation to be legally binding unless covered by treaty opt out. EU directives require domestic legislation, they tell govt what the policy is just not how to implement it. They can have legal force even if not national law. No, I didn't say that. I said I can't think of any significant law (i.e. one that I care about) that has been imposed on the UK without the UK parliament having voted on it. I was also making the point that the EU parliament and EU council which implement legislation are democratic. The EU parliament is directly elected by the people of the EU while the EU council is comprised of representatives of the democratically elected governments of EU member states (with votes weighted by population). To say we are governed by a technocratic establishment in Brussels that can never be removed is misleading and false in my view.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lep Recorn on May 30, 2016 13:47:58 GMT
EU MEPs are democratically elected unlike, say the House of Lords.
I do not recall ever voting for any of those and I am sure that they have influence over our laws.
|
|
|
|
Post by chielamangus on May 30, 2016 16:13:15 GMT
But all this is irrelevant as we'll be plunged into WW3 according to Tweedledumb and there won't be any assets left anyway. Experience has shown that we cannot believe anything that Tweedledumb & Tweedledee say or predict so I'll be voting on a question of principle - do I want to be part of a democracy where Government can be periodically be changed if the people choose, or do I want to be run by a technocratic establishment in Brussels that can never be removed? The answer is obvious and any short term movements in financial indicators are of no consequence in the longer term picture. Well I disagree. The EU parliament is an elected institution. The MEPs can be removed by the people in the european elections. Besides, I can't think of any legislation that has been imposed on us by a technocratic establishment in Brussels (I can only think you mean the EU Courts of justice). All significant laws are passed by the UK parliament. If you would rather have Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson running the country on a platform of fear then vote as you will. This illustrates the problem with this Referendum - people don't even understand what they are voting for. The system of government in the EU is not a replication on a larger scale of what we have in the UK. The EU Parliament is just a talking shop with no power to propose legislation. That power is reserved for the Commission which is permanent and unelected. And what colour is it? Blue, red, green, rainbow? Can we change it? No. The EU Parliament can amend the legislation proposed by the Commission (and always in consultation with the Commission) but I am not aware on any instance where it has chucked anything out. Why should it? It's a part of the same well-paid, low taxed establishment. They ain't gonna rock the boat. And where does that leave the people? What is the value of your vote now? And don't confuse principles with personalities. I'm sure that there are many on the Leave side that you would not associate with, but for the purposes of this campaign you will support. But for the record, I do agree with Farage that mass immigration is creating many problems, problems that the well-heeled can avoid or take advantage of, but which the poorer majority of the population cannot. I suggest you listen to David Owen's recent speeches on the subject on Youtube. A former Foreign minister, and very much pro-EU, he now wants to leave, as the direction that has been taken is not what he foresaw or believes is desirable in general or good for the UK.
|
|
|
|
Post by chielamangus on May 30, 2016 16:21:26 GMT
EU regulations do not require domestic legislation to be legally binding unless covered by treaty opt out. EU directives require domestic legislation, they tell govt what the policy is just not how to implement it. They can have legal force even if not national law. No, I didn't say that. I said I can't think of any significant law (i.e. one that I care about) that has been imposed on the UK without the UK parliament having voted on it. I was also making the point that the EU parliament and EU council which implement legislation are democratic. The EU parliament is directly elected by the people of the EU while the EU council is comprised of representatives of the democratically elected governments of EU member states (with votes weighted by population). To say we are governed by a technocratic establishment in Brussels that can never be removed is misleading and false in my view. The Council votes on issues put forward by the Commission. The Commission is permanent and unelected. The Council ministers are different bods at different times, who have no consistent view of anything. Naturally, the Commission controls the agenda. In the UK it is the Government (elected) and individual MPs (private member's bills) who propose legislation. Where is the equivalent in the EU? There is an incredibly naive view out there about the EU.
|
|
|
|
Post by chielamangus on May 30, 2016 16:23:48 GMT
EU MEPs are democratically elected unlike, say the House of Lords. I do not recall ever voting for any of those and I am sure that they have influence over our laws. Two wrongs do not make a right. Better to abolish the Lords AND leave the EU, but at the moment we are only being asked about the latter.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on May 30, 2016 16:59:59 GMT
When we removed the last EU thread from the chat board we asked for volunteers to mod such a thread until the end of July. In the absence of any volunteers, the mod team feel it best this discussion is locked.
Discussing the impact of the vote on UK fiscal and monetary policy and hence consequences for specific p2p platforms is fine, but the wider political discussion can all too easily become overheated and takes an inordinate amount of time to moderate.
|
|
