littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Sept 27, 2016 7:53:58 GMT
Personally I dislike pre-funding, it only works on SS because most of the loans are significantly larger. It certainly wouldn't work for a renewal here. I prefer to know how much I'm investing and take my chance. Shrapnel doesn't appeal. Why wouldn't bottom-up pre-funding without INPL give you exactly that?
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rogerbu
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Post by rogerbu on Sept 27, 2016 8:39:39 GMT
Seems wrong for MT to queue jump for some 'bidders' who've read that they can get their offer sorted in this manner tbh. As said get the bid limit right and it should work just fine anyway. Simplicity of MT and things happening when they should is what makes the platform for me - attempts to turn it into a sort of pseudo SS effort doesn't appeal. I have used Ed's services a couple of times over the last two years when travelling with no internet service. It is clear that the Things are entering bids in the same way and at the same time that we do. On at least one occasion with multiple loans going at the same time. The result was -Sorry, we weren't able to place all your bids in time. So you do not gain any advantage if you have to get Ed to place a bid for you. As said above. This is clearly a manual task for the Things at a time when they are busy. So it should be used with restraint.
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archie
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Post by archie on Sept 27, 2016 9:59:04 GMT
Personally I dislike pre-funding, it only works on SS because most of the loans are significantly larger. It certainly wouldn't work for a renewal here. I prefer to know how much I'm investing and take my chance. Shrapnel doesn't appeal. Why wouldn't bottom-up pre-funding without INPL give you exactly that? How can I argue with a little old lady? Take the recent loan, tranche B was £1500 maximum bid. What would I get if I pre-funded that amount? Nothing or a reduced amount?
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Sept 27, 2016 10:03:09 GMT
How can I argue with a little old lady? Think Little Red Riding Hood; she may not be what she seems
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Sept 27, 2016 10:30:10 GMT
Take the recent loan, tranche B was £1500 maximum bid. What would I get if I pre-funded that amount? Nothing or a reduced amount? On a bottom up allocation I would guess you'd have got £400-£500, as would everyone else who wanted £400-£500 (or more) and who got their bid in before go-live time. On the recent renewal loan, where there was £7200 up for grabs, you'd probably have got about £10 (or £0 if you had a 'don't bother me with shrapnel <£100' turned on). The stated goal of having loans sit around for 24 hours is just not consistent (at least on the reasonable value loans) with a 0.5% bid limit and 1000+ willing lenders.
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Post by SophieThing on Sept 27, 2016 10:32:05 GMT
Hi Everyone,
Just to confirm a few things:
When we place bids for lenders we do so in exactly the same way as everyone else. We log on as the lender just before 4pm, and when the loan is set live, we refresh the page and place the bid. We don't place bids before 4pm. We have ten bids to place today and only a small team here and we do them in the order that they come in. If you ask us to place a bid on your behalf, you take a chance that we might not be able to place one.
It is not a scaleable solution of course, just something we are doing for now to help lenders out where we can. In the longer term, we are thinking through the options suggested here and playing with bid limits to give everyone a better chance.
Of course the best solution is to have better deal flow and we're working on that too.
Kind regards
Sophie
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Sept 27, 2016 10:42:57 GMT
Why wouldn't bottom-up pre-funding without INPL give you exactly that? How can I argue with a little old lady? Take the recent loan, tranche B was £1500 maximum bid. What would I get if I pre-funded that amount? Nothing or a reduced amount? Using the SS model you would get £1500 (if there was enough to go round) or a reduced amount. The smallest bids are satisfied first then when there is insufficient to satisfy the next level of bids the remaining amount is shared equally. SS have not spelled out exactly how this is coded, but perhaps the simplest way for Shuang to code it would be if the prefunding amount was from a drop down menu of fixed amounts so the iteration could proceed one level at a time. Does that make sense?
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Sept 27, 2016 10:52:00 GMT
The smallest bids are satisfied first then when there is insufficient to satisfy the next level of bids the remaining amount is shared equally. SS have not spelled out exactly how this is coded, but perhaps the simplest way for Shuang to code it would be if the prefunding amount was from a drop down menu of fixed amounts so the iteration could proceed one level at a time. Does that make sense? Probably best that we don't have a detailed discussion about the mechanism, but the obvious problem with this solution is that those bidding small amounts would get their entire allocation, but the whole loan might be used up before it even gets to people wanting £1500. You'd need to allocate £100, for example, to all people wanting at least £100, then move up. As I say, I'm sure Shuang will come up with something brilliant if MT decides this is the way to go.
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archie
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Post by archie on Sept 27, 2016 11:11:27 GMT
How can I argue with a little old lady? Take the recent loan, tranche B was £1500 maximum bid. What would I get if I pre-funded that amount? Nothing or a reduced amount? Using the SS model you would get £1500 (if there was enough to go round) or a reduced amount. The smallest bids are satisfied first then when there is insufficient to satisfy the next level of bids the remaining amount is shared equally. SS have not spelled out exactly how this is coded, but perhaps the simplest way for Shuang to code it would be if the prefunding amount was from a drop down menu of fixed amounts so the iteration could proceed one level at a time. Does that make sense? I could get nothing unless I bid low. Still prefer current method.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Sept 27, 2016 13:22:47 GMT
You can make it as complicated as you like, and I know there is an argument for keeping things simple, but eg...
When you prefund you select either "all or nothing" or "as much as I can get". The system totals the two types and splits the loan proportionally. The first type are allocated in full randomly until exhausted. The second type are allocated bottom up by one method or another. You could simply fill the smaller ones first or you could allocate the smallest amount to everyone and then move up a level and iterate.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Sept 27, 2016 14:28:48 GMT
You can make it as complicated as you like, and I know there is an argument for keeping things simple, but eg... When you prefund you select either "all or nothing" or "as much as I can get". The system totals the two types and splits the loan proportionally. The first type are allocated in full randomly until exhausted. The second type are allocated bottom up by one method or another. You could simply fill the smaller ones first or you could allocate the smallest amount to everyone and then move up a level and iterate. Yes to prefunding
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am
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Post by am on Sept 27, 2016 17:53:55 GMT
I would make a plea for a pre funding set up. It works well on SS. I am one of the unfortunate ones who cannot be available at 4pm and can never get a slice of the pie. Prefunding as implemented on SS has had its problems. It has led to people gaming the system (by asking for more than they wanted to increase their share of a pro rata allocation) and thence to a potential (or actual) arms race of bigger and bigger overbids. SS have started using bottom up allocation on larger as well as smaller loans recently which may resolve this. Smaller limits would help those who aren't online at the right time at MT, but perhaps too small a limit would start discouraging a subset of lenders. A thought that has crossed my mind is to divide a loan into two pools, one with a small enough limit that anyone can get a share, and one with a larger limit, so larger scale lenders still have an opportunity to get a significant investment provided they're quick enough. But as has been commented elsewhere, if there are too many lenders chasing too few loans, there's no perfect solution to the allocation problem.
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Neil_P2PBlog
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Sept 27, 2016 18:22:27 GMT
What about this to allocate? Loan of 400,000: User selects min and max bid up to to a limit of say 1% of total loan amount, maybe £100 and £4,000 in this example. 50% of the loan is in pool A 50% of the loan is in pool B Pool A is a lottery. It goes to a random user and allocates them 100% of their pre-bid, then goes to a second random user and allocates 100% etc until it meets someone it can't fill then dumps into pool B. Pool B is then an SS type bottom up allocation. It gives everyone £10, then everyone £20 etc up until it runs out of money. If a list of people don't hit their minimum bid this leftover sum could be randomly allocated between them as in pool A. This gets around the problems am mentions with SS as people are less inclined to overbid (incase they actually get it). The minimum bid also lets people avoid shrapnel if they want. It gives the largest lenders what they want from time to time and also the little guys (like me ;-)) an opportunity.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Sept 27, 2016 18:27:05 GMT
I like it, but does a lender have to select which pool he would like to be considered in, or are all lenders in both pools (complicated!)? I'd favour 'pick your pool'. Now could we have similar for the SM?? The downside is you won't know how much you got until late in the day, so you may have moved too much cash into MT (unless we have some sort of advance calculation/notice, not completely unlike INPL).
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Neil_P2PBlog
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Sept 27, 2016 18:29:23 GMT
I originally thought that all lenders would be in both pools (to scare people from overbidding incase they end up getting allocated 100%).
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