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Post by khampson on Nov 19, 2016 9:44:52 GMT
I was thinking about deploying some money in AC, when I looked under the manual loan listings I was quiet surprised to see 19 of the 205 loans listed has trading suspended which means 9.26% are unavailable for investment, I know that does not mean they are in the progress of recovery but it does seem quite a high number, is this quite normal and do they often swap and change between trading and trading suspended?
thank you
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 10:50:02 GMT
Is it normal? Yes
Do they swap about a lot? No
AC do put up TS for very short periods if they are "concerned" on a minor/major issue, but that will be just for a few weeks and I'm not sure if there are any at the moment.
From my experience (2 yrs and counting) AC move slowly to resolve trading suspended, that is not to say they are any worse than anyone else, but once suspended things are going into multiple months "delay". This is pretty much the norm across P2P.
Does every P2P get defaults, weellll, probably yes but a fair few still have a perfect record. MT for example, partially because their model is different.
The question you should be asking is not one of default but about total returns. Is AC a good total return business with fair total rates for total risk. For me, the answer is less and less, but that is only my opinion. I'm slowly cashing up, but slowly. Certainly there is little that I am trying to pick up at the moment and only the diamonds thing has lots of availability at the moment that would interest me (and even here DyDD)
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 19, 2016 11:08:08 GMT
To be fair, it's much the same thing as "Rate Band Removed" on Funding Circle. The difference is that AC remain happy to display their slightly grubby laundry in public whereas FC immediately render their "distressed" loans pretty much invisible (to everyone bar those whose funds are locked up in them for years without warning)
[Edit: The other obvious difference is that, being secured loans, AC lenders are a whole lot more likely to get most / all of their money back eventually than is the case on FC!!]
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Post by valueinvestor123 on Nov 19, 2016 11:38:56 GMT
"MT for example, partially because their model is different."
What is the main difference in their model? I am curious.
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iren
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Post by iren on Nov 19, 2016 12:36:07 GMT
Some defaulted loans are of their nature those that stick around longest on the platform, during the recovery process, which means their percentage of the current AC portfolio does not represent the overall default rate or the result an individual would have achieved if they had invested across the range of loans. As others have noted, issues with AC's loans are kept very visible.
Some loans are also suspended for very temporary reasons with no bearing on the quality of the loan e.g. currently 109 is suspended while a lender vote takes place on a requested renewal for a further two year period, and 331 is suspended due to a technical issue in crediting a payment received from the borrower. Personally, I'm invested in one suspended loan that's impaired, loan 199, but hopeful for a full successful recovery from the security.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Nov 19, 2016 12:48:21 GMT
There are a variety of tabs on the loan book page, but is there any way of filtering to just show suspended loans?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 13:06:39 GMT
"MT for example, partially because their model is different." What is the main difference in their model? I am curious. In my mind 1) Time limited loans, normally 6 months. They are very good at control of time, which I see as an indicator that they are very tight on other functions, process seems so much easier and consistent 2) MT make the initial investment then sell on 3) Partners are generally in more interesing areas than property 4) Partners sometimes have to put some skin in the deal with a first loss position 5) More believable cash flow story rather than just how the money is going to be spent 6) Better at customer communications 7) Far less (if any) focus on Institutional investors 8) No "accounts" that generally feel "wrong" 9) Simpler customer software
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Nov 19, 2016 13:35:41 GMT
"MT for example, partially because their model is different." What is the main difference in their model? I am curious. In my mind 1) Time limited loans, normally 6 months. They are very good at control of time, which I see as an indicator that they are very tight on other functions, process seems so much easier and consistent 2) MT make the initial investment then sell on 3) Partners are generally in more interesing areas than property 4) Partners sometimes have to put some skin in the deal with a first loss position 5) More believable cash flow story rather than just how the money is going to be spent 6) Better at customer communications 7) Far less (if any) focus on Institutional investors 8) No "accounts" that generally feel "wrong" 9) Simpler customer software Or, put more simply: MT is pretty good; AC is pretty cr*p.
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dave
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Post by dave on Nov 19, 2016 13:58:10 GMT
There are a variety of tabs on the loan book page, but is there any way of filtering to just show suspended loans? I just sort by accrued interest - the suspended loans tend to be near the top (my list dominated by 137/146/129/199 - total impaired loans are 4% of my loan book) Dave
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Post by lynnanthony on Nov 19, 2016 15:41:50 GMT
Or, put more simply: MT is pretty good; AC is pretty cr*p. Uncalled for I feel. They are different and offer different though overlapping asset classes. I like MT but I would not be willing to put all my eggs in their basket; I currently have three times as much in AC as I do in MT. Diversification of borrower concerns me a bit with MT. Everyone will have their own view; if you don't like AC don't invest with them.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Nov 19, 2016 21:38:58 GMT
Or, put more simply: MT is pretty good; AC is pretty cr*p. Uncalled for I feel. They are different and offer different though overlapping asset classes. I like MT but I would not be willing to put all my eggs in their basket; I currently have three times as much in AC as I do in MT. Diversification of borrower concerns me a bit with MT. Everyone will have their own view; if you don't like AC don't invest with them. Noted. Thanks for the advice.
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Post by khampson on Nov 19, 2016 22:58:06 GMT
I have money in both Moneything and AC, I have had money locked into AC for 6 months over 3 loans, I invested the same amount into each loan on the manual AC account, obviously some I never got chance to invest due to lack of SM activity or the loan went to trading suspended before I got any loan allocation.
My concern with AC is that my money gets locked into an account regardless of what account it is in, even the 30d account and the quick access account can have money locked in, thus can cause some inconvenience, I really like AC account set ups its just trying to get trust into the accounts to use them, the best performing platform for me to date is BondMason. I do like moneything but the issue I have is getting my money out on loan, anything on the secondary market is snapped up sharpish, unless you have time to sit refreshing the screen you need to drip feed and just log on at 4pm to get your investment, need to find a home for my money now that my bank have cut rates to 1.5%.
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daveb4
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Post by daveb4 on Nov 20, 2016 8:59:44 GMT
Appreciate AC may have a number of defaulted loans but as mentioned previously some of these are temporary awaiting customer votes, loan extensions etc.
The best part about AC manual investing is that you can either use your experience or learn how to reduce your risk and chances of losses. eg invest in all loans you will get a default, pick and choose and you can reduce this risk, you may however get slightly lower rates due to better Loan to Values/businesses. I actually on occasions proactively invest in businesses that have been temporary suspended or just come out of default due to higher interest rates (higher risk but if security good I may think worth it). This needs a little time (regularly reading updates) and probably experience.
In nearly two years averaging 11% (appreciate this is now reducing due to new rates) and only just been hit with first loss being S------- B-- T- L-- which I am not sure anyone really saw coming especially with such a big hit.
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Post by khampson on Nov 20, 2016 10:33:26 GMT
Appreciate AC may have a number of defaulted loans but as mentioned previously some of these are temporary awaiting customer votes, loan extensions etc. The best part about AC manual investing is that you can either use your experience or learn how to reduce your risk and chances of losses. eg invest in all loans you will get a default, pick and choose and you can reduce this risk, you may however get slightly lower rates due to better Loan to Values/businesses. I actually on occasions proactively invest in businesses that have been temporary suspended or just come out of default due to higher interest rates (higher risk but if security good I may think worth it). This needs a little time (regularly reading updates) and probably experience. In nearly two years averaging 11% (appreciate this is now reducing due to new rates) and only just been hit with first loss being S------- B-- T- L-- which I am not sure anyone really saw coming especially with such a big hit. I have a massive issue with the manual accounts, I invest in the great British business account meaning if I invest manually I could be unknowingly investigating in the same business, also having money in the quick access account, I think with AC you need to decide to go with an manual account or a account run by AC, by investing in all you can have money in the same loan in just about every account
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am
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Post by am on Nov 20, 2016 14:41:40 GMT
Appreciate AC may have a number of defaulted loans but as mentioned previously some of these are temporary awaiting customer votes, loan extensions etc. The best part about AC manual investing is that you can either use your experience or learn how to reduce your risk and chances of losses. eg invest in all loans you will get a default, pick and choose and you can reduce this risk, you may however get slightly lower rates due to better Loan to Values/businesses. I actually on occasions proactively invest in businesses that have been temporary suspended or just come out of default due to higher interest rates (higher risk but if security good I may think worth it). This needs a little time (regularly reading updates) and probably experience. In nearly two years averaging 11% (appreciate this is now reducing due to new rates) and only just been hit with first loss being S------- B-- T- L-- which I am not sure anyone really saw coming especially with such a big hit. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I saw it coming, but I passed on that one - I lacked confidence in the strength of the local economy and hence its housing market, particularly at the bottom end.
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