mrflush
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Post by mrflush on Jan 20, 2017 14:44:43 GMT
Pretty much as the subject really, can't find Collateral mentioned anywhere in the general Tax and CGT discussions so for CGT purposes are Collateral loans 'simple debts' or chargeable assets? Question applies to both original and SM loans.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Jan 20, 2017 15:51:15 GMT
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 20, 2017 16:14:08 GMT
That sounds like a receipe for disaster listening to me. Just an interpretation based on what more knowledgeable types have posted on the subject in relation to other platforms eg SS elsewhere.
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nick
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Post by nick on Jan 21, 2017 12:47:29 GMT
Pretty much as the subject really, can't find Collateral mentioned anywhere in the general Tax and CGT discussions so for CGT purposes are Collateral loans 'simple debts' or chargeable assets? Question applies to both original and SM loans. The default is that PM loan part that is originated direct by the lender will be deemed a simple debt but any parts purchased on the SM will be chargeable. In respect of Collateral, its not clear to me whether lenders are directly originating the loan or Collateral are issuing the loan in the first instance and then distributing them on their platform. I suspect the later given they effectively operate a pawnbroking operation - I can't imagine they have the luxury of waiting around for auctions prior to making lending decisions to borrowers. It would also explain why they don't have any P2P regulatory permissions. Given that all sale of loan parts are at par, I don't think it really matters on the status as no CGT will ever be liable so it would only leave a potential disclosure issue which doesn't matter if at the end of the day no tax is at stake. Any specific reason for the original question?
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mrflush
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Post by mrflush on Jan 21, 2017 18:39:10 GMT
Reason for question is that I don't want to find myself in a position where I breach the £44k chargeable asset disposal limit and so should fill in the SA CGT section, and therefore have to provide the calculations which would have to include ABL deals below/at/above par and some amortizing loans (monthly disposals) just to show that no CGT is due! All this is of course if my understanding is correct.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jan 21, 2017 20:24:10 GMT
Reason for question is that I don't want to find myself in a position where I breach the £44k chargeable asset disposal limit and so should fill in the SA CGT section, and therefore have to provide the calculations which would have to include ABL deals below/at/above par and some amortizing loans (monthly disposals) just to show that no CGT is due! All this is of course if my understanding is correct. AB cant even decide on what to report for interest, so they are very unlikely to report CGT liability. I'd wait till the platform tells you exactly what they are reporting to HMRC. Besides, you must have a truckload invested to go over the limit
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nick
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Post by nick on Jan 21, 2017 20:49:47 GMT
Reason for question is that I don't want to find myself in a position where I breach the £44k chargeable asset disposal limit and so should fill in the SA CGT section, and therefore have to provide the calculations which would have to include ABL deals below/at/above par and some amortizing loans (monthly disposals) just to show that no CGT is due! All this is of course if my understanding is correct. Whilst you are correct - you should complete the CGT section if the value of your disposals are above the limit, I wouldn't bother if your chargeable gain is below the annual exemption amount. HMRC can only levy penalties in respect of returns if there is an error on the return or other documents which either understate the tax or misrepresent the tax liability (late filing and payment penalties are addressed seperately). Penalties themselves are based on a fraction of the potential lost tax revenue. Therefore were HMRC to find out that you did not complete the CGT section when you should have, you would not be liable to any financial sanction if no tax were due (if tax was due then intentional omission of the CGT information could led to a 30-100% of tax due penalty as the error could be argued as deliberate and concealed). A good summary of the current penalty regime is give at: www.rossmartin.co.uk/penalties-a-compliance/223-tax-compliance-new-regimeBottom line - I would only bother completing the CGT section of the SA form if you have any uncertainty on whether you have any CGT liability. Otherwise failing to submit the CGT section will not have any real consequence.
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mrflush
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Post by mrflush on Jan 22, 2017 13:15:27 GMT
Thanks for the responses, particularly from nick, which I shall digest and consider.
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