averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Jul 25, 2019 13:21:21 GMT
Confidentiality agreements are a professional tool. Nothing to knit conspiracy theories around. MT sits between the borrowers and the lenders. They are not your pals, and they are certainly not your peasants. If they have proposed it: Good! Shows they are playing the can. This forum is a potential leak (as other platforms are aware of, too). Beside that I appreciate them feeding the lender base as they did yesterday. There was some good information. Yes you would expect confidentialty but MT are making an agreement on our behalf as agents so therefore my belief is that all lenders in the loan should be informed at least in summary what the final agreement was.
They aren't our pals or anything but agents and as such should be working for the best solution for us and when they have that solution it should be explained to us not here is your capital back but that is all you getting and we aren't saying anymore apart from we have decided this is the best course for you.
Unfortunately when you don't/can't provide information for something then it someone is always going to cry conspiracy
Not meaning to be pedantic but the update said not all of the interest ..suggesting that some will be paid ..personally i’m happy on balance to trust MT
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wuzimu
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Post by wuzimu on Jul 25, 2019 15:02:29 GMT
Confidentiality agreements are a professional tool. Nothing to knit conspiracy theories around. MT sits between the borrowers and the lenders. They are not your pals, and they are certainly not your peasants. If they have proposed it: Good! Shows they are playing the can. This forum is a potential leak (as other platforms are aware of, too). Beside that I appreciate them feeding the lender base as they did yesterday. There was some good information. Yes you would expect confidentialty but MT are making an agreement on our behalf as agents so therefore my belief is that all lenders in the loan should be informed at least in summary what the final agreement was.
They aren't our pals or anything but agents and as such should be working for the best solution for us and when they have that solution it should be explained to us not here is your capital back but that is all you getting and we aren't saying anymore apart from we have decided this is the best course for you.
Unfortunately when you don't/can't provide information for something then it someone is always going to cry conspiracy
I agree with toffeeboy I have preferred MT over most other platforms in the past and I want to still BUT....
the model of P2P is the platform is agent and trustee and we are the Principal and carry all the risk that goes with being the Principal.
It's just not on for the agent to tell the Principal they have made a binding agreement on behalf of the Principal and the Principal can't see it.
It flies in the face of the laws of Agency, agents must always be fully accountable to the Principal and its at the heart of whats gone wrong at many platforms,
not least Lendy.
If there's confidentiality in the agreement then lenders can be asked to attend MT's office and sign a NDA and then view the agreement. Obviously most lenders wouldn't be bothered , but to simply deny access is not on and is symptomatic of a downward spiral....
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corto
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one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on Jul 25, 2019 21:47:08 GMT
I agree with toffeeboy I have preferred MT over most other platforms in the past and I want to still BUT....
the model of P2P is the platform is agent and trustee and we are the Principal and carry all the risk that goes with being the Principal.
It's just not on for the agent to tell the Principal they have made a binding agreement on behalf of the Principal and the Principal can't see it.
It flies in the face of the laws of Agency, agents must always be fully accountable to the Principal and its at the heart of whats gone wrong at many platforms,
not least Lendy.
If there's confidentiality in the agreement then lenders can be asked to attend MT's office and sign a NDA and then view the agreement. Obviously most lenders wouldn't be bothered , but to simply deny access is not on and is symptomatic of a downward spiral....
Good point. Have you or somebody else tried to get direct access under an NDA and they rejected it?
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Jul 25, 2019 22:23:45 GMT
why should you need to - complete nonsense. bizarre folk are happy with not getting what they've been sold because it's 'confidential' each to their own
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corto
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one-syllabistic
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Post by corto on Jul 26, 2019 6:53:31 GMT
Well, it seems you have to as they wouldn't give you the lollipop you demand without crying.
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coop
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Post by coop on Jul 26, 2019 8:46:44 GMT
Pretty annoying the borrower appear to have wriggled out of their legal contract to pay us our bloody interest but not a lot I can do about it...
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Jul 26, 2019 9:25:40 GMT
Pretty annoying the borrower appear to have wriggled out of their legal contract to pay us our bloody interest but not a lot I can do about it... Not all of it
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woodie
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Post by woodie on Jul 26, 2019 23:04:59 GMT
Just returned after a week without the means to access the internet ( yes it can happen especially at my age ).
I've been a strong supporter of MT in the past but the Wandsworth update has been a game changer.
Either the original contract wasn't legally watertight or the borrower has bluffed and MT blinked.
Unless p2p platforms are able to issue binding contracts, and follow up if the contract is broken, they fail.
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amwinv
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Post by amwinv on Jul 27, 2019 9:12:46 GMT
43% LTV. First charge. CPO impending. Tenanted with rental income. Seemingly reputable borrower. This should have been a slam dunk, yet somehow we will end up losing some interest... but are supposed to consider ourselves lucky to get all of our capital back.
I'm curious to see what this new stream of "much safer" loans at 8-10% will bring.
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keystone
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Post by keystone on Jul 27, 2019 10:06:24 GMT
Either the original contract wasn't legally watertight or the borrower has bluffed and MT blinked. Unless p2p platforms are able to issue binding contracts, and follow up if the contract is broken, they fail. You make an excellent point. If you can't even be sure of the basics being right...
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sapphire
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Post by sapphire on Jul 27, 2019 18:11:44 GMT
MoneyThing FWIW, possibly as an exercise in damaged limitation, it may be helpful if you are able to clarify the following questions, as best as you can, without breaching the cloak of confidentiality. How can lenders in existing loans (and potential investors in new ones) be assured /clarified that: 1. The loan agreements used by MT are legally watertight and that other borrowers cannot wriggle out of it or bluff their way out and not fully pay their contractual dues? 2. MT is not using the cloak of confidentiality to (unfairly and possibly illegally) protect itself or one of its agents (solicitors, valuers etc.) from an error or omission on their part, which has a resulted in a (partial) loss of interest to its borrowers? 3. Is there anything to prevent this borrower's solicitor / legal advisers to use the "success" they have achieved for this client (by being able to wriggle out of their agreement and not having to pay the full contractual dues) to market / offer their services to other MT borrowers and/or sell/market/share their 'trade secrets' with other legal advisers? 4. This potentially infectious 'disease' does not spread and become an 'epidemic'? I expect there are a number of other questions which need answering too and the above is not intended to be an exhaustive list. (P.S. I acknowledge using phrases from previous contributors.)
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coop
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Post by coop on Jul 29, 2019 11:54:59 GMT
I was thinking about this and it really depends how much of the outstanding interest is recovered as to how good a deal this is - if they cough up interest up to the originally planned loan end date I'll be very happy - I can imagine it's harder to prove the buyer has to pa any penalty interest/late interest due to loan overrunning etc than it is to enforce the original loan terms. This is based on nothing in particular
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jul 29, 2019 15:53:49 GMT
MoneyThing FWIW, possibly as an exercise in damaged limitation, it may be helpful if you are able to clarify the following questions, as best as you can, without breaching the cloak of confidentiality. How can lenders in existing loans (and potential investors in new ones) be assured /clarified that: 1. The loan agreements used by MT are legally watertight and that other borrowers cannot wriggle out of it or bluff their way out and not fully pay their contractual dues? 2. MT is not using the cloak of confidentiality to (unfairly and possibly illegally) protect itself or one of its agents (solicitors, valuers etc.) from an error or omission on their part, which has a resulted in a (partial) loss of interest to its borrowers? 3. Is there anything to prevent this borrower's solicitor / legal advisers to use the "success" they have achieved for this client (by being able to wriggle out of their agreement and not having to pay the full contractual dues) to market / offer their services to other MT borrowers and/or sell/market/share their 'trade secrets' with other legal advisers? 4. This potentially infectious 'disease' does not spread and become an 'epidemic'? I expect there are a number of other questions which need answering too and the above is not intended to be an exhaustive list. (P.S. I acknowledge using phrases from previous contributors.) Not sure if this is of much help but under the revised T&C introduced in April last year, MT can effectively do exactly as they wish without reference to lenders. Think item 9.1(i) refers. This may already have been the case under their old T&C.
It follows that irrespective as to how watertight any original agreement is or was, it can be varied by the platform at their sole discretion. They are not obligated to explain their actions although of course good PR would determine they did.
from the MT website -
Section 9 of revised T&C
(i) without seeking the consent of, or entering into consultation with, you or the other Lenders:
(A) To enter into negotiations and make agreements, waivers and amendments on your behalf relating to the individual terms of any Loan Contract that you have participated in, whether before or after a Default Event has occurred, including any settlements or compromises in a default situation (including extending the repayment profile or interest rate of the Loans);
B) To manage the recovery processes where any Borrower has failed to make payments to you under any Loan Agreement or where a Default Event has occurred. As part of this recovery process you authorise us to sub-contract this process to a third party to act on your behalf;
(C) To enforce or procure the enforcement of any Loans. Where there has been a Default Event, these terms authorise us and the Security Trustee, in our sole discretion and on your behalf, to conduct, manage and conclude (i) litigation and (ii) all other steps to enforce the Security Documents, against the Borrower; and
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jul 29, 2019 16:42:23 GMT
Which is EXACTLY why I never agreed the New Ts & Cs and have never invested a penny with MT since.
And along with FS stuck in a string of MT Problem Loans.
There is NO liquidity in P2P.
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Jul 30, 2019 7:18:16 GMT
Which is EXACTLY why I never agreed the New Ts & Cs and have never invested a penny with MT since. And along with FS stuck in a string of MT Problem Loans. There is NO liquidity in P2P. Plenty of diarrhoea though.
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