dc213
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Post by dc213 on Jan 30, 2017 19:55:05 GMT
Is SS a risky undertaking ?
On ' live loans ' there are 27 negative loans out of a possible 85 loans
that's 31.76 % negative loans.
some loans may not have been updated !!!!!!!!
could this be our overall risk or do we have to take the loan values into account ? Any ideas anybody
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Jan 30, 2017 20:05:50 GMT
Is SS a risky undertaking ? On ' live loans ' there are 27 negative loans out of a possible 85 loans that's 31.76 % negative loans. some loans may not have been updated !!!!!!!! could this be our overall risk or do we have to take the loan values into account ? Any ideas anybody It's certainly not a savings account.... It's 12%, so you should expect "risk". You should also be prepared to be involved in defaults and loans over running. Borrowers are paying 18%+ for a reason... This is P2P - you pick the loans, so pick the ones with the best security; dump the others that have suspect looking security. Have a strategy where you hope for the best and plan for the worst; if you think your going to continue to get 12% returns... you're wrong (...especially now rates are dropping, but that's not what I mean) Saving Stream faults lies with their comms (improving... a tad), its reluctance to provide material to help in DD (MS Reports  ), its lack of transparency (no contracts, dodgy updates) and its new business model offering loans at a rate according to the size of the loan (not the risk - i.e. they are profiteering off our risk).
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jan 30, 2017 20:36:42 GMT
Yes dc213.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Jan 30, 2017 20:56:34 GMT
Is SS a risky undertaking ? On ' live loans ' there are 27 negative loans out of a possible 85 loans that's 31.76 % negative loans. some loans may not have been updated !!!!!!!! could this be our overall risk or do we have to take the loan values into account ? Any ideas anybody Loan values As time increases, so has SS loan sizes, so it's only about 25% of money lent
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mason
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Post by mason on Jan 30, 2017 21:00:35 GMT
Is SS a risky undertaking ? On ' live loans ' there are 27 negative loans out of a possible 85 loans that's 31.76 % negative loans. some loans may not have been updated !!!!!!!! could this be our overall risk or do we have to take the loan values into account ? Any ideas anybody I wouldn't class the number of days remaining on a loan as the biggest warning sign of future trouble. IMHO there are negative day loans that I'd be much more happy holding than some of the newer ones. It is claimed that interest continues to be received on the overdue loans and they continue on a rolling basis having not been formally extended. I'd focus more on the quality of the security and the borrower.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 1, 2017 17:40:48 GMT
It is claimed that interest continues to be received on the overdue loans and they continue on a rolling basis having not been formally extended. I thought I read somewhere recently that SS had 'clarified' the position of overdue terms loans to say that where the borrower actually was paying interest monthly SS would adjust the term accordingly, and where the term was negative it meant that SS themselves were paying the interest to their investors and expecting that they would be reimbursed for this out of the proceeds of the loan settlement. Did I imagine that? Is it a new policy that hasn't been implemented fully yet?
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fp
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Post by fp on Feb 1, 2017 18:55:20 GMT
It is claimed that interest continues to be received on the overdue loans and they continue on a rolling basis having not been formally extended. I thought I read somewhere recently that SS had 'clarified' the position of overdue terms loans to say that where the borrower actually was paying interest monthly SS would adjust the term accordingly, and where the term was negative it meant that SS themselves were paying the interest to their investors and expecting that they would be reimbursed for this out of the proceeds of the loan settlement. Did I imagine that? Is it a new policy that hasn't been implemented fully yet? I'm of the same belief, so i'm guessing it was suggested, I make that roughly £295k per month out of the SS coffers if that is the case.
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am
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Post by am on Feb 1, 2017 19:11:41 GMT
It is claimed that interest continues to be received on the overdue loans and they continue on a rolling basis having not been formally extended. I thought I read somewhere recently that SS had 'clarified' the position of overdue terms loans to say that where the borrower actually was paying interest monthly SS would adjust the term accordingly, and where the term was negative it meant that SS themselves were paying the interest to their investors and expecting that they would be reimbursed for this out of the proceeds of the loan settlement. Did I imagine that? Is it a new policy that hasn't been implemented fully yet? My understanding is that SavingStream extend the loan when the borrower pays the interest for a period upfront, and when the term is negative the borrower is paying interest monthly as it falls due. However there are several overrunning loans where there is skepticism that the latter is the case. SavingStream could provide updates of the form "<date of event>: borrower has prepaid interest up to <end date>" and "<date of event>: borrower has paid the interest due <due date>". If they did that we could be confident that loans are being serviced, rather than the LTV margin being eroded by accrued and unpaid interest. (Hi Paul64 .) Funding Circle have their own communications problems, but there at least participants in an SME loan know when repayments are late, and we all know the situation with overrunning property loans (interest payments haven't been made, and FC tell us - at least some of the time, and I think reliably - when partial capital repayments are made, but not distributed due to the defects of FC's IT systems.)
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 1, 2017 19:20:16 GMT
SavingStream could provide updates of the form "<date of event>: borrower has prepaid interest up to <end date>" and "<date of event>: borrower has paid the interest due <due date>". If they did that we could be confident that loans are being serviced, rather than the LTV margin being eroded by accrued and unpaid interest. (Hi Paul64 .) Funding Circle have their own communications problems, but there at least participants in an SME loan know when repayments are late, and we all know the situation with overrunning property loans (interest payments haven't been made, and FC tell us - at least some of the time, and I think reliably - when partial capital repayments are made, but not distributed due to the defects of FC's IT systems.) AC do a brilliant job of this. Every loan has a Repayments tab showing exactly what is due from the borrower and what has been received and when. If a payment is overdue, it's very obvious from that info. Wouldn't it be nice if savingstream provided similar info?
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am
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Post by am on Feb 1, 2017 19:46:03 GMT
SavingStream could provide updates of the form "<date of event>: borrower has prepaid interest up to <end date>" and "<date of event>: borrower has paid the interest due <due date>". If they did that we could be confident that loans are being serviced, rather than the LTV margin being eroded by accrued and unpaid interest. (Hi Paul64 .) Funding Circle have their own communications problems, but there at least participants in an SME loan know when repayments are late, and we all know the situation with overrunning property loans (interest payments haven't been made, and FC tell us - at least some of the time, and I think reliably - when partial capital repayments are made, but not distributed due to the defects of FC's IT systems.) AC do a brilliant job of this. Every loan has a Repayments tab showing exactly what is due from the borrower and what has been received and when. If a payment is overdue, it's very obvious from that info. Wouldn't it be nice if savingstream provided similar info? Come to think on it, if SavingStream provided the suggested updates, there wouldn't be a need to reset the duration. One could argue either way, but I feel that changing the duration obscures the fact that the loan has overrun on its scheduled repayment. As it stands it requires lenders to maintain their own records on this point. (I should check whether one of the stickied threads collects this information.)
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mason
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Post by mason on Feb 1, 2017 19:47:45 GMT
I thought I read somewhere recently that SS had 'clarified' the position of overdue terms loans to say that where the borrower actually was paying interest monthly SS would adjust the term accordingly, and where the term was negative it meant that SS themselves were paying the interest to their investors and expecting that they would be reimbursed for this out of the proceeds of the loan settlement. Did I imagine that? Is it a new policy that hasn't been implemented fully yet? Think about what you are saying! "SS" and "clarified" in the same sentence.  I also read something along those lines written by someone other than SS, but I think subsequent posts in the thread led me to the understanding that this had not been implemented. My understanding of what happens in practice is the same as am. But how can anyone know for sure? I wouldn't trust a statement made by SS these days.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 1, 2017 19:55:51 GMT
I thought I read somewhere recently that SS had 'clarified' the position of overdue terms loans to say that where the borrower actually was paying interest monthly SS would adjust the term accordingly, and where the term was negative it meant that SS themselves were paying the interest to their investors and expecting that they would be reimbursed for this out of the proceeds of the loan settlement. Did I imagine that? Is it a new policy that hasn't been implemented fully yet? Think about what you are saying! "SS" and "clarified" in the same sentence. I also read something along those lines written by someone other than SS, but I think subsequent posts in the thread led me to the understanding that this had not been implemented. My understanding of what happens in practice is the same as am . But how can anyone know for sure? I wouldn't trust a statement made by SS these days. SS have repeatedly informed me in the past that if a borrower stops sending payment then the loan defaults. However, in recent weeks their tone has changed; not sure when the policy changed, but it now seems that SS covers the interest payments out of platform profit when a loan runs into negative territory. When the borrower sends interest SS extends the loan. It is very important that investors understand that when investing in negative duration loans, it is likely that SS, not the borrower is paying the interest.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 1, 2017 20:03:26 GMT
I thought I read somewhere recently that SS had 'clarified' the position of overdue terms loans... Think about what you are saying! "SS" and "clarified" in the same sentence. I also read something along those lines written by someone other than SS, but I think subsequent posts in the thread led me to the understanding that this had not been implemented. My understanding of what happens in practice is the same as am . But how can anyone know for sure? I wouldn't trust a statement made by SS these days. That's the reason I put 'clarified' in quotes!  I take all policy statements from SS with a large dose of salt. I don't accept anything of that nature from them as being real until I see that it has been adopted in practice. On too many occasions, SS have announced that they were going to do something and then subsequently changed their mind without telling anyone. That isn't the way to develop the confidence of their investors, but up to now they don't seem to have been very concerned about that. We can hope that the appointment of a new Communications Officer means they are raising the priority of good communications. But, as before, I'll believe it when I see it producing results.
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mason
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Post by mason on Feb 1, 2017 20:05:18 GMT
SS have repeatedly informed me in the past that if a borrower stops sending payment then the loan defaults. However, in recent weeks their tone has changed; not sure when the policy changed, but SS now cover the interest payments out of platform profit. When the borrower sends interest SS extends the loan. It is very important that investors understand that when investing in negative duration loans, it is likely that SS, not the borrower is paying the interest. This is a very important change and completely changes my assessment of the platform risk. I think this could be the final straw for me.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 1, 2017 20:14:55 GMT
SS have repeatedly informed me in the past that if a borrower stops sending payment then the loan defaults. The last time I remember them saying that, they had a significant 'get out' clause, something to the effect of "...except if we believe that all interest owed eventually will be received via the recovery process, in which case we'll pay the interest to our investors monthly for a while despite the borrower not paying." (Those are my words, not a quote from SS.) The problem was -- and AFAIK still is -- that it isn't obvious on the website which of the overdue loans are being serviced by the borrowers and which are being serviced by SS. And that's what I thought SS were hoping to make clearer.
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), its lack of transparency (no contracts, dodgy updates) and its new business model offering loans at a rate according to the size of the loan (not the risk - i.e. they are profiteering off our risk).
