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Post by jackpease on Mar 7, 2017 9:32:46 GMT
I remain puzzled by repeated suggestions that people are dumping SS in favour of MT (even if a normal busy person could get invested in anything other than Tranche 999 of a northern loan).
SS's loans go overdue - and are clearly labelled as such. Most don't seem to care and invest anyway, at least the very overdue loans have now been banished behind a default tab.
Meanwhile the jolly nice folks at MT, who can do no wrong, merely extend them. So a quick glance at MT's loans page and all looks fine and dandy. A quick look at SS's loans page and it looks a mess.
If you spread your investment across SS loans you will have some linked lenders borrowers - if you do the same in MT you will have a lot of linked lenders borrowers.
Is the reason that this board is scrutinising every teeniest SS breath simply because they have stopped engaging with us and we are punishing them? Is the reason that there isn't the same scrutiny of MT is because they are talking to us?
Jack P (expecting a mauling!)
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mike
Member of DD Central
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Post by mike on Mar 7, 2017 9:46:24 GMT
Jack, nothing is ever black and white, so SS do have their good points and MT their drawbacks. MT tend to manage their loan book in a more organised and transparent way. Given the current high liquidity on both sites you can get out of most loans at the drop of a hat. I'm currently "overweight" SS including my SIPP and plan to scale it back in the coming months. The IFISA roll-out (if it ever comes) will also be important.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 7, 2017 9:53:31 GMT
Do you mean linked borrowers, Jack? jackpease |
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Post by jackpease on Mar 7, 2017 9:55:08 GMT
Do you mean linked borrowers, Jack? jackpease whoops now corrected yes borrowers! thx
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Post by charles on Mar 7, 2017 10:15:24 GMT
I remain puzzled by repeated suggestions that people are dumping SS in favour of MT (even if a normal busy person could get invested in anything other than Tranche 999 of a northern loan). SS's loans go overdue - and are clearly labelled as such. Most don't seem to care and invest anyway, at least the very overdue loans have now been banished behind a default tab. Meanwhile the jolly nice folks at MT, who can do no wrong, merely extend them. So a quick glance at MT's loans page and all looks fine and dandy. A quick look at SS's loans page and it looks a mess. If you spread your investment across SS loans you will have some linked lenders borrowers - if you do the same in MT you will have a lot of linked lenders borrowers. Is the reason that this board is scrutinising every teeniest SS breath simply because they have stopped engaging with us and we are punishing them? Is the reason that there isn't the same scrutiny of MT is because they are talking to us? Jack P (expecting a mauling!) Hi jackpease, mike, I think you have a point: there is an element of SS being punished for poor comms and vice versa for MT. But that said, good comms in my mind is a crucial part of the whole "financial services" package, and in the world of finance, where confidence is everything, a comms blackout may as well be a default, because to the investor it feels like the same thing. In my opinion, it's impossible to separate the service completely from the product/investment itself, so I can understand people wanting to shift from one platform to another on the basis of the former even if the latter is (near) identical. That's why I have made communication with our investors a key priority at Property Crowd. And while I'm busy zipping around Asia on business, writing articles for the financial press, and trying to keep my pregnant wife happy all at the same time (the dictionary definition of "impossible trinity", I think you'll find!), I still take time to personally answer queries here on P2P Forum, because to me, it's absolutely key. Regards, Charles
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Post by charles on Mar 7, 2017 10:30:50 GMT
P.S. it's also a great thing, being able to speak directly to your users/customers, getting a thumbs up or a bollocking either way, because that is how one improves. A shout-out here to pom, justsaying, @leopardcat, @new2p2p and others who have given me both kinds of feedback. I know that for a lot of founders, the temptation is to start going all "big picture macro" once things start to take off, and outsourcing everything to paid-per-hour contractors, forgetting what it was that got them there in the first place - i.e. the customer. So I, for one, think I'll be quite happy chilling out here with all of you while I can. May have to take a few weeks off in July, when my wife's due. Diaper duty awaits. |
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pom
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Post by pom on Mar 7, 2017 11:22:15 GMT
I think there is a definite bias towards investing in the personalities as much as the deals, and I'm probably as guilty as that as the next person. But staying invested is another matter and whilst comms are helpful, and I'm as frustrated as everyone at the poor quality of responses to even simple queries, I understand all platforms will have growing pains so am prepared to cut some slack. For me however, after I'd been investing about a year (took me about that long to get enough invested AND have time to really focus tbh) I started to look more closely at where my money was and the differences between platforms. My first immediate (and should have been blindingly obvious sooner) conclusion was that you really can't compare anything based on the rate you receive. So whilst I still like SS for the sheer ease of investing with them I'm much more cautious about how much money I'm prepared to tie into which deals because the SM is capricious to say the least, and I have a general feeling that my loans there are much tighter riskwise (LTVs), so liquidity is a key factor to staying. I have pulled out of some loans because of things that have been unearthed here, but often more because of likely liquidity impact than immediate concerns. Meanwhile having had a few loans resolve successfully, I actually feel far happier about having larger chunks more firmly tied in at BC, even tho investing with them is considerably less easy. MT I still haven't really got a full impression on the propertly loans tbh - need one to go wrong!!! (no that's not an invitation MoneyThing - but it will happen and I "look forward" to it). If they were just doing property loans I might have a different view, but as a relatively early investor I'm lucky to have a wide range of different "stuff" with them as well as property, and my loan sizes are small enough that I am happy to continue to wait and see. And whilst they will invariably have to change as they grow, who can't respect the way the Things are operating? As for charles who seems to be making it his mission to be everywhere on this forum.... PC looks promising, but very much just starting honeymoon period  The real test will be if he's still so keen to talk to us when things get more "interesting" (I was gonna say when the brown stuff starts flying around, but it sounds like he'll be well practised on a personal level before it hits the platform anway!!!) |
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Post by charles on Mar 7, 2017 11:46:56 GMT
As for charles who seems to be making it his mission to be everywhere on this forum.... PC looks promising, but very much just starting honeymoon period The real test will be if he's still so keen to talk to us when things get more "interesting" (I was gonna say when the brown stuff starts flying around, but it sounds like he'll be well practised on a personal level before it hits the platform anway!!!) Ha! yes, it's become a bit of an obsession really. I've never really used forums or bulletin boards before, but I'm finding myself spending at least an hour each day reading and replying to threads. It's great for market research - I get to check out the competition, gain insights into what they're doing right or wrong (which helps us improve), engage first-hand with P2P investors to learn about what's important, what isn't, etc... And while I acknowledge we're still very much in the "early stages of this relationship", pom, I assure you it's been anything but a 'honeymoon' here at Property Crowd command central. Like a duck, paddling furiously under the water's surface.  Trust is earned, I know, and we will work hard so as not to let you down.
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Post by chielamangus on Mar 7, 2017 13:28:02 GMT
P.S. it's also a great thing, being able to speak directly to your users/customers, getting a thumbs up or a bollocking either way, because that is how one improves. A shout-out here to pom , justsaying , @leopardcat , @new2p2p and others who have given me both kinds of feedback. I know that for a lot of founders, the temptation is to start going all "big picture macro" once things start to take off, and outsourcing everything to paid-per-hour contractors, forgetting what it was that got them there in the first place - i.e. the customer. So I, for one, think I'll be quite happy chilling out here with all of you while I can. May have to take a few weeks off in July, when my wife's due. Diaper duty awaits. Well, charles , there will be no thumbs up from me based on my experience so far. Knowing nothing about your platform, I visited it to find more information, but all I found was jargon (institutional grade property, unique Prime Custodian Model℠, comprehensive institutional grade infrastructure, institutional grade debt, best-in-class institutional loan arrangers, Integrated transactional arrangements, institutional counter-party standards, mitigation of single point of failure weakness, cutting-edge, and reflects our mission to revolutionise investment in the global alternatives arena, etc etc). But of property type, place, loan size, loan duration, interest rate etc mention was there none.* Thinking this info might be behind a member's wall, I registered, Well, I started. And then by the second page I was asked to provide certified copies of my passport, utility bills etc. All I want is to find out if yours is the sort of platform I might invest in, and I am not going to go to the bother and expense of getting what you demand when it might not be at all to my liking. And since your opening pages have already put me off, you have almost certainly lost one potential investor. Unless you can provide more hard information about your operation before some one goes through the registering process, I doubt that I will be the last to turn away. City slicker meets crowdfunder and there's no meeting of minds. * Sorry, there was one. A Liverpool water front property bond with an IRR (!) of 12 per cent.
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Post by lendinglawyer on Mar 7, 2017 13:54:33 GMT
P.S. it's also a great thing, being able to speak directly to your users/customers, getting a thumbs up or a bollocking either way, because that is how one improves. A shout-out here to pom , justsaying , @leopardcat , @new2p2p and others who have given me both kinds of feedback. I know that for a lot of founders, the temptation is to start going all "big picture macro" once things start to take off, and outsourcing everything to paid-per-hour contractors, forgetting what it was that got them there in the first place - i.e. the customer. So I, for one, think I'll be quite happy chilling out here with all of you while I can. May have to take a few weeks off in July, when my wife's due. Diaper duty awaits. Well, charles , there will be no thumbs up from me based on my experience so far. Knowing nothing about your platform, I visited it to find more information, but all I found was jargon (institutional grade property, unique Prime Custodian Model℠, comprehensive institutional grade infrastructure, institutional grade debt, best-in-class institutional loan arrangers, Integrated transactional arrangements, institutional counter-party standards, mitigation of single point of failure weakness, cutting-edge, and reflects our mission to revolutionise investment in the global alternatives arena, etc etc). But of property type, place, loan size, loan duration, interest rate etc mention was there none.* Thinking this info might be behind a member's wall, I registered, Well, I started. And then by the second page I was asked to provide certified copies of my passport, utility bills etc. All I want is to find out if yours is the sort of platform I might invest in, and I am not going to go to the bother and expense of getting what you demand when it might not be at all to my liking. And since your opening pages have already put me off, you have almost certainly lost one potential investor. Unless you can provide more hard information about your operation before some one goes through the registering process, I doubt that I will be the last to turn away. City slicker meets crowdfunder and there's no meeting of minds. * Sorry, there was one. A Liverpool water front property bond with an IRR (!) of 12 per cent. It's a fair point that you couldn't access the most crucial info without registering and being cleared, but once you do and are (which for me was easy as I have people around me to certify docs on demand!) and get into the deal room the information available is excellent. charles maybe more should be made available to people before they have cleared the hurdles, e.g. loan description, structure, etc., even if not full documents like term sheet, constituting instrument, valuation report, etc. One to consider although you have filled your stuff quite quickly regardless so it can't be a huge problem!
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Post by charles on Mar 7, 2017 14:04:31 GMT
Well, charles , there will be no thumbs up from me based on my experience so far. Knowing nothing about your platform, I visited it to find more information, but all I found was jargon (institutional grade property, unique Prime Custodian Model℠, comprehensive institutional grade infrastructure, institutional grade debt, best-in-class institutional loan arrangers, Integrated transactional arrangements, institutional counter-party standards, mitigation of single point of failure weakness, cutting-edge, and reflects our mission to revolutionise investment in the global alternatives arena, etc etc). But of property type, place, loan size, loan duration, interest rate etc mention was there none.* Thinking this info might be behind a member's wall, I registered, Well, I started. And then by the second page I was asked to provide certified copies of my passport, utility bills etc. All I want is to find out if yours is the sort of platform I might invest in, and I am not going to go to the bother and expense of getting what you demand when it might not be at all to my liking. And since your opening pages have already put me off, you have almost certainly lost one potential investor. Unless you can provide more hard information about your operation before some one goes through the registering process, I doubt that I will be the last to turn away. City slicker meets crowdfunder and there's no meeting of minds. * Sorry, there was one. A Liverpool water front property bond with an IRR (!) of 12 per cent. Hi chielamangus , I'm sorry you've encountered problems with the sign up so far, and would like to ask that you give us another chance. Please allow me to explain: as you correctly suspect, there is indeed a member's wall, behind which there is plenty of information for you to peruse (nod to lendinglawyer, thanks for the endorsement!). Seeing as you were asked to provide certified copies of your documents, one of two things must have happened: a) the online ID checks have failed verify your identity automatically, or b) you are not UK resident. Would you kindly send us your name, email and the address you tried to sign up with - either via a PM to me, or via an email to info@propertycrowd.com and I will look into this matter for you post-haste. Thank you for your interest and your patience. Regards, Charles
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Post by meledor on Mar 7, 2017 14:07:23 GMT
P.S. it's also a great thing, being able to speak directly to your users/customers, getting a thumbs up or a bollocking either way, because that is how one improves. A shout-out here to pom , justsaying , @leopardcat , @new2p2p and others who have given me both kinds of feedback. I know that for a lot of founders, the temptation is to start going all "big picture macro" once things start to take off, and outsourcing everything to paid-per-hour contractors, forgetting what it was that got them there in the first place - i.e. the customer. So I, for one, think I'll be quite happy chilling out here with all of you while I can. May have to take a few weeks off in July, when my wife's due. Diaper duty awaits. Well, charles , there will be no thumbs up from me based on my experience so far. Knowing nothing about your platform, I visited it to find more information, but all I found was jargon (institutional grade property, unique Prime Custodian Model℠, comprehensive institutional grade infrastructure, institutional grade debt, best-in-class institutional loan arrangers, Integrated transactional arrangements, institutional counter-party standards, mitigation of single point of failure weakness, cutting-edge, and reflects our mission to revolutionise investment in the global alternatives arena, etc etc). But of property type, place, loan size, loan duration, interest rate etc mention was there none.* Thinking this info might be behind a member's wall, I registered, Well, I started. And then by the second page I was asked to provide certified copies of my passport, utility bills etc. All I want is to find out if yours is the sort of platform I might invest in, and I am not going to go to the bother and expense of getting what you demand when it might not be at all to my liking. And since your opening pages have already put me off, you have almost certainly lost one potential investor. Unless you can provide more hard information about your operation before some one goes through the registering process, I doubt that I will be the last to turn away. City slicker meets crowdfunder and there's no meeting of minds. * Sorry, there was one. A Liverpool water front property bond with an IRR (!) of 12 per cent.
Certified copies?? That sounds rather antiquated. I don't recall having to do that with any other P2P platforms who have more automated ways of doing KYC. Maybe something for Charles to look at when he can tear himself away from making shameless plugs for his platform!
Edit: crossed with Charles.
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Post by charles on Mar 7, 2017 14:11:48 GMT
Certified copiers?? That sounds rather antiquated. I don't recall having to do that with any other P2P platforms who have more automated ways of doing KYC. Maybe something for Charles to look at when he can tear himself away from making shameless plugs for his platform!
Hi meledor, kindly refer to my reply to chielamangus above. I assure you we do live in the 21st century, but things just don't work as they should sometimes.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Mar 7, 2017 14:20:22 GMT
charles Make sure a bypass is available for people who do not actually have a passport. I wouldn't want to be stalled for that reason if I were to think of registering.
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twoheads
Member of DD Central
Programming
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Post by twoheads on Mar 7, 2017 14:30:36 GMT
Well, charles , there will be no thumbs up from me based on my experience so far. Knowing nothing about your platform, I visited it to find more information, but all I found was jargon (institutional grade property, unique Prime Custodian Model℠, comprehensive institutional grade infrastructure, institutional grade debt, best-in-class institutional loan arrangers, Integrated transactional arrangements, institutional counter-party standards, mitigation of single point of failure weakness, cutting-edge, and reflects our mission to revolutionise investment in the global alternatives arena, etc etc). But of property type, place, loan size, loan duration, interest rate etc mention was there none.* Thinking this info might be behind a member's wall, I registered, Well, I started. And then by the second page I was asked to provide certified copies of my passport, utility bills etc. All I want is to find out if yours is the sort of platform I might invest in, and I am not going to go to the bother and expense of getting what you demand when it might not be at all to my liking. And since your opening pages have already put me off, you have almost certainly lost one potential investor. Unless you can provide more hard information about your operation before some one goes through the registering process, I doubt that I will be the last to turn away. City slicker meets crowdfunder and there's no meeting of minds. * Sorry, there was one. A Liverpool water front property bond with an IRR (!) of 12 per cent. I read your review above and, thinking it may be a little over the top, I decided to have a look at the PC website myself and, maybe, write a counter-opinion.
I was, like you, amazed at what I found there.
Far from writing a counter opinion, I completely agree with what you say and furthermore, I don't think your review goes anywhere near far enough.
The only thing which qualifies as industrial grade is the sheer quantity and concentration of b******* <pick either of two obvious alternatives>. It appears to have been written by someone straight out of business school trying to impress their reader with the number of clever phrases they've learnt; an attempt to convince us that the PC people really know their stuff.
Who on earth thinks up rubbish like 'Senior Debt' and 'Mezzanine' to describe risk groups?
As for sign up - that appeared to be simple until I signed in for the first time and was presented with 'Investor on-boarding pending'. Do these guys not know any normal English? However, the process went fairly smoothly for me with no need for passports and the like.
I do not anticipate making any investments with them for the time being - because, for the most part, I don't understand what the hell they're on about.
EDIT: Crossed with meledor, charles and oldgrumpy.
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The real test will be if he's still so keen to talk to us when things get more "interesting" (I was gonna say when the brown stuff starts flying around, but it sounds like he'll be well practised on a personal level before it hits the platform anway!!!)
Trust is earned, I know, and we will work hard so as not to let you down.
