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Post by capscarlet on Apr 15, 2017 14:43:59 GMT
Might have been wiser to put some of these in separate threads but in the interests of brevity lets keep them here.
Have started with corwdfunding in the last 6 months and so far investing in a couple of platforms, namely:
AssetzCapital
Bond Mason
Funding Secure
Wise Alpha (small amount).
As I'm not resident in the UK (although a UK citizen) I'm not allowed to invest in some of the UK platforms (Zopa, Ratesetter etc.) and not sur ewhy that is. Can anyone enlighted me?
I've also been looking at Money thing which also seems to have a lot of property but can anyone tell me why is that site a better bet that funding secure? or is it a similar thing?
In addition to the above I'm also on a couple of European based platforms, namely:
- Montos
- Twino
As well as some specific property based loan/equity sites, including:
- Bergfurst
- Exporo
- Zinsland
- Property Partner
- Property Moose
- The House Crowd
Any platforms that I should also be considering or (reflecting on the fact that BM and AC are on autoinvest) does that give me enough diversification? any o the above I should be getting out of?
Overall that about 10% of my total portfolio in crowdfunding plus I have another 5% in alternative investments making arounf 15% in total. I feel ok with that at the moment but I'm thinking about another 10-15% given where stock markets are at the moment. What do people think and what part does crowdfunding play in your overall investment profile?
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Post by wiseclerk on Apr 15, 2017 15:02:26 GMT
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Post by capscarlet on Apr 15, 2017 16:56:27 GMT
Thanks - thats helpful - and yes German resident
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nick
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Post by nick on Apr 15, 2017 17:59:12 GMT
I think a lot of the UK P2P platforms restrict lenders to UK residents simply as it is a lot easier (and thus cheaper) to perform Know Your Customer checks on UK residents compared to smaller volumes of checks on residents in a spread of other countries......
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Post by df on Apr 15, 2017 21:09:16 GMT
MT is similar to FC, but it is short of loans. It is much easier to diversify in FS than in MT. MT has slightly lower rates, but I think many people like it more because MT haven't had any defaults yet and all repayments are on time.
You should have a look at BM's new T&C. You might want to get out of there because of fee increase or will have to get out if your investment is less than £5000.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 15, 2017 22:43:47 GMT
Main differences (apart form deal flow) between MT & FS is MT pays interest monthly, FS at term (or whenever the loan repays) MT SM operates at par only, is currently extremely liquid but is quite often empty (or blink & youll miss it FFF), FS allows premiums/discounts, is less liquid at par (especially property) but has a wide selection of loans available. FS offer bonuses to large investors on most loans Both pay interest from investment point Important you make sure you understand how the FS SM works with regard tax treatment as buyer pay accrued interest to seller and are then liable for taxation on full term interest not just the period held. A quick perusal of FS threads will suggest that some have major issues with FS communication and handling of late/distressed loans MT customer service considered to some of the best around, FS pretty good MT deposits/withdrawls extremely fast, usually minutes, FS are slower but still generally a few hours. (Getting a sense of deja vu here, sure Ive written this post or similar before  ) |
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Post by catalist on Apr 17, 2017 8:38:51 GMT
you can check out other European p2p sites like Bondora, Lendix, FellowFinance etc.
However, be careful with diversification here. Its not in how many platforms you put your money that matters, its more important to diversify between asset classes. If you put all your eggs in the basket of poor quality consumer lending based p2p platforms, during region wide financial distress, you will be in trouble. I would advise looking at more sites but at the same time screening for various asset clases (consumer, businesses, invoice, property etc.).
Catalist
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kulerucket
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Post by kulerucket on Apr 17, 2017 9:32:50 GMT
Important you make sure you understand how the FS SM works with regard tax treatment as buyer pay accrued interest to seller and are then liable for taxation on full term interest not just the period held. This applies under HMRC rules in the UK, but other countries could be different.
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mason
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Post by mason on Apr 17, 2017 10:27:24 GMT
Important you make sure you understand how the FS SM works with regard tax treatment as buyer pay accrued interest to seller and are then liable for taxation on full term interest not just the period held. This applies under HMRC rules in the UK, but other countries could be different. It's different even for other platforms operating within the UK. On the majority of SMs, accrued interest is retained by the seller and they remain liable for taxation on this interest.
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Post by capscarlet on Apr 17, 2017 10:51:43 GMT
you can check out other European p2p sites like Bondora, Lendix, FellowFinance etc. However, be careful with diversification here. Its not in how many platforms you put your money that matters, its more important to diversify between asset classes. If you put all your eggs in the basket of poor quality consumer lending based p2p platforms, during region wide financial distress, you will be in trouble. I would advise looking at more sites but at the same time screening for various asset clases (consumer, businesses, invoice, property etc.). Catalist Agree. In general I am avoiding consumer lending with the exception of Mintos and Twino which offer buyback and payment guarantees respectively. I am also using Bond Mason which has auto diversity and the business account on Assetz Capital for the same reason
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 16:57:11 GMT
CapS,
"I've also been looking at Money thing which also seems to have a lot of property but can anyone tell me why is that site a better bet than funding secure? or is it a similar thing?"
MT is slightly unusual among your other portals as
1) It does what it says it will do when it says it would do it
2) It communicates competently
3) Its secondary market is at par and has not managed to confuse capital gain with income as other portals (FS) have
4) Still no loan failure
As one of my old bosses used to say to me "Other people bring me surprises, you just bring me money"
Other portals FS, AC, SS (Lendy) struggle to achieve these 4 basic aspects. FS feels more disorganised and accepting of risks but has already gone through two transitions and seems to have settled on its best business model. SS is still feeling its feet, having only just re-shaped its offering (and made it a fair bit more complicated in the process).
Despite the fact FS and SS have far more opportunity to lend than MT I continue to have more invested with MT than both of the others together, the loans just feel cleaner. I've not invested more money in AC for a year now and am letting the loans play out as with FC.
I feel SS needs another 12 months to see if it will reshape into a more street wise business, recent activities suggest it is trying. FS is becoming the place which I invest in if I have cash and a lot of time for due diligence, but I avoid (minimise) their property, boat loans and Scotland.
Keep you P2P at around the 5% level until we see what happens at the next crash.
Good Luck
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2017 17:01:06 GMT
Much as I like the Bond Mason concept I still struggle to see anyone would invest via it. The rates seem too low. It might make sense if you have to work for a living.
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Post by capscarlet on Apr 17, 2017 19:33:27 GMT
Thanks Bobo
I agree with most of that - I quite like funding secure as the loan flow is very good although it does seem a little chaotic. I take comfort in the fact that the the rates are quite good but I am limiting my investment on each loan as I fully expect to lose some money with them!
I've been in the postion where I had a lot of cash sitting around so I've been investing heavily over the last few months but will now start to scale back and see how things go over the next 12 months before I up my exposure (currently sitting at around 10%).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2017 8:32:43 GMT
You might consider breaking up your larger initial loans into smaller parts as time goes forward. That is the usual strategy for those who dive in at the start, it keeps you in touch with the market while you gain experience.
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Post by catalist on Apr 18, 2017 10:08:52 GMT
you can check out other European p2p sites like Bondora, Lendix, FellowFinance etc. However, be careful with diversification here. Its not in how many platforms you put your money that matters, its more important to diversify between asset classes. If you put all your eggs in the basket of poor quality consumer lending based p2p platforms, during region wide financial distress, you will be in trouble. I would advise looking at more sites but at the same time screening for various asset clases (consumer, businesses, invoice, property etc.). Catalist Agree. In general I am avoiding consumer lending with the exception of Mintos and Twino which offer buyback and payment guarantees respectively. I am also using Bond Mason which has auto diversity and the business account on Assetz Capital for the same reason Be also careful with the so called ''buyback guarantees''. Sure, if you have out of 100 some few defaults, the platform has no problem repaying you what you lost. And it is crucial to understand that it really costs the platform almost nothing, compared to what they earn. And also for you as an investor, it is much less relevant than what is sounds. If you are well diversified, you should not care if 5 out of 100 borrowers in your portfolio default, because you still get decent return. What is relevant however is how those buyback guarantees would work during different economic cycles. And the answer is that they wouldnt. During recession, for such consumer / payday loan platform, there would be up to 70% default rate and no buyback guarantee would ever be possible for you as an investor.
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