ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on May 1, 2018 8:37:45 GMT
Year to date I've made £157 on a balance that's always been above £65K, account started in 2016. That's about 1% APR. If that is based on 6,500 loan parts it is an astonishing failure to achieve quoted returns! Have you tried to talk to Zopa about this because imo it discredits them completely. I have not been convinced by other underachievers but your post has persuaded me to run down my portfolio quicker than before. My worry is that Zopa has a relatively good credit team and the largest consumer loan book in the industry. This may be a sign of growing strain in consumer debt, (as well as incompetence?) therefore, I am going to increase lending to corporates and decrease my consumer exposure. Something the p2p investment trusts are also doing.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 1, 2018 8:49:24 GMT
Year to date I've made £157 on a balance that's always been above £65K, account started in 2016. That's about 1% APR. If that is based on 6,500 loan parts it is an astonishing failure to achieve quoted returns! Have you tried to talk to Zopa about this because imo it discredits them completely. I have not been convinced by other underachievers but your post has persuaded me to run down my portfolio quicker than before. My worry is that Zopa has a relatively good credit team and the largest consumer loan book in the industry. This may be a sign of growing strain in consumer debt, (as well as incompetence?) therefore, I am going to increase lending to corporates and decrease my consumer exposure. Something the p2p investment trusts are also doing. Based on 2187 loans. Money was put into Zopa in stages. One mistake I made when building up the account was to invest £15K in one go, getting 100 loans @ £150 each. Haven't tried Zopa because I suspect they'd say "well, it's all about averages" - which it is, but I don't appreciate being at the cr*p end of the returns.
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on May 1, 2018 9:22:45 GMT
Year to date I've made £157 on a balance that's always been above £65K, account started in Sept 2016. That's about 1% APR. First 7 months of 2017 (account relatively new): losses averaged 23.8% of interest The last 8 months (4 in 2017, 4 in 2018): losses have averaged 81.4% of interest That is terrible. Is that in Plus?
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 1, 2018 9:48:32 GMT
Year to date I've made £157 on a balance that's always been above £65K, account started in Sept 2016. That's about 1% APR. First 7 months of 2017 (account relatively new): losses averaged 23.8% of interest The last 8 months (4 in 2017, 4 in 2018): losses have averaged 81.4% of interest That is terrible. Is that in Plus? Yes
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benaj
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Post by benaj on May 1, 2018 10:15:37 GMT
If that is based on 6,500 loan parts it is an astonishing failure to achieve quoted returns! Have you tried to talk to Zopa about this because imo it discredits them completely. I have not been convinced by other underachievers but your post has persuaded me to run down my portfolio quicker than before. My worry is that Zopa has a relatively good credit team and the largest consumer loan book in the industry. This may be a sign of growing strain in consumer debt, (as well as incompetence?) therefore, I am going to increase lending to corporates and decrease my consumer exposure. Something the p2p investment trusts are also doing. Based on 2187 loans. Money was put into Zopa in stages. One mistake I made when building up the account was to invest £15K in one go, getting 100 loans @ £150 each. Haven't tried Zopa because I suspect they'd say "well, it's all about averages" - which it is, but I don't appreciate being at the cr*p end of the returns. I have never got a chance to reach 2000 loans, the most I had with Zopa was 1107 loans. | Stage (loading money into Zopa Plus) | % in all time loan book | Loans acquried | Actual Loans in default | | 1 | 0.5% | 100 | 4 | | 2 | 20% | 100 | 2 | | 3 | 22.6% | 100 | 8 | | 4 | 31.9% | 100 | 5 | | 5 | 18% | 100 | 1 | | Reinvestment | 7% | 607 | 7 | | Total | 100% | 1107 | 27 |
As you can see, the number of loan defaults in each period varies. IMHO, a lot has to do with luck. It seems the loans invested via reinvestment and loans invested in may 2017 performed better in my case. 8 defaults out of 707 reinvestment loans. The worst default is actually 8 out of 100 in stage 3. Bear in mind, 27 defaults in 1107 Zopa plus is higher than Zopa reported for loans originated in 2017, considering for investing 8 months. Ignoring the reinvestments, that's 20 defaults out of 500 loans, 4%!!!I am expecting 5 more defaults in 2018.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 1, 2018 10:29:53 GMT
It seems the loans invested via reinvestment and loans invested in may 2017 performed better in my case. Since the returns on my Z+ started turning down some months back, I've been withdrawing all repayments. Clearly, if what you've experienced is a general fact (not sure why it would be), I could have been hampering my returns. However, I'm loathe to reinvest in Zopa when it's clearly doing worse than my other P2P investments (AC, FC, RS). Bit like when shares drop off a cliff - no way of knowing if that represents a buying opportunity, or they're going to stay depressed for years to come (or even sink lower).
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benaj
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Post by benaj on May 1, 2018 10:34:50 GMT
It seems the loans invested via reinvestment and loans invested in may 2017 performed better in my case. Since the returns on my Z+ started turning down some months back, I've been withdrawing all repayments. Clearly, if what you've experienced is a general fact (not sure why it would be), I could have been hampering my returns. However, I'm loathe to reinvest in Zopa when it's clearly doing worse than my other P2P investments (AC, FC, RS). Bit like when shares drop off a cliff - no way of knowing if that represents a buying opportunity, or they're going to stay depressed for years to come (or even sink lower). It's hard to tell the true defaults of my reinvestment would be since I started selling off whole portfolio in late Nov 2017.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 1, 2018 10:37:39 GMT
Since the returns on my Z+ started turning down some months back, I've been withdrawing all repayments. Clearly, if what you've experienced is a general fact (not sure why it would be), I could have been hampering my returns. However, I'm loathe to reinvest in Zopa when it's clearly doing worse than my other P2P investments (AC, FC, RS). Bit like when shares drop off a cliff - no way of knowing if that represents a buying opportunity, or they're going to stay depressed for years to come (or even sink lower). It's hard to tell the true defaults of my reinvestment would be since I started selling off whole portfolio in late Nov 2017. Why did you decide to start selling it off ?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on May 1, 2018 11:06:45 GMT
Why did you decide to start selling it off ? I did considering withdrawing money monthly before selling of the entire zopa plus portfolio. However, after investing 8 months, I realised Zopa is designed to be a long term investment, suitable for someone who does not need withdrawing money more than monthly repayment. The interest & fees Zopa charged really put me off leaving a big chunk of money there, which I didn't know about. At first, I thought the selling fee is only 1%. Looking back in my statement in March 2018, I paid 1% selling fee and 9.25% for interest for selling 1 loan. That's the highest I have ever been charged for selling loans in Zopa. No one from Zopa told me I would have to pay such a high price for selling.
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on May 1, 2018 13:15:08 GMT
The big issue is if people are getting these low returns across the board it wont be good in the long run for the platform and my ability to sell my loans
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Post by nutfield on May 1, 2018 14:21:15 GMT
Am I the only one that finds Zopa's attitude difficult to understand? They must be aware of the overwhelmingly negative comments on here from what are (presumably) a selection of the more aware customers/investors. Some firms go to great trouble and expense to get feedback from articulate customers. Why isn't there someone on here from Zopa saying how they are addressing these problems ( if they are ) and how things will be better in the future (if they think that they will be). Or, don't they care?
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invester
P2P Blogger
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Post by invester on May 1, 2018 15:18:21 GMT
Too big to care really.
TBH they ain't stupid and my own belief is that institutional investors get a better quality allocation of loans than retail.
Of course, the blended rate is advertised to us.
That is how I would run it if I were them, there should be some incentive for volume.
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aju
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Post by aju on May 1, 2018 15:36:52 GMT
perhaps they would listen to this more if it were on twitter ;-)
TBH though I must be one of the luckier ones although to be fair I am not into Plus by as much as some people on here more 15%/85% Plus/(core/classic) in both my ISA and Invest sides.
I have had quite a few defaults though although like someone else earlier mentioned not as much D&E since Zopa adjusted the lending rates.
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zlb
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Post by zlb on May 1, 2018 15:56:54 GMT
I complained to them about the poor diversification model and they said they were looking at improving that. Perhaps others should write to them even if their voice does feel like a drop in Z ocean, perhaps it will add up. So many people have been caught out by poor diversification in deposits over 1k.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on May 1, 2018 16:27:21 GMT
I complained to them about the poor diversification model and they said they were looking at improving that. Perhaps others should write to them even if their voice does feel like a drop in Z ocean, perhaps it will add up. So many people have been caught out by poor diversification in deposits over 1k. I agree the diversification could have been better. Someone can be lucky to get 1 default from 100 zopa plus loans while someone else could get 8 defaults out of 100 for the 1st year. To be honest I do like the D/E loans as borrowers paid up to 31% interest but there's no way to have a portfolio of D/E loans only. Only time will tell if The zopa plus 6% return blending or the 4.6% return plus blending doing much better than 4% return of zopa core.
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