ashtondav
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,814 
Likes: 1,092
|
Post by ashtondav on May 11, 2018 14:21:29 GMT
After all with F.C. what’s not to like about sending off a payment and getting 7%?
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,500
Likes: 924
|
Post by aju on May 11, 2018 15:32:03 GMT
Just out of interest everybody can see the loans both public and personal but is there any report anywhere that details how many active and non active lenders there are in zopa. I know there are some big players on here but I'm just curious how many lenders there are and say the average investment etc. Does zopa repot on this info.
Another thing that occured to me and that is are all my loans actually individual borrowers or is it possible that some of my loans may be secondaries from say one of the big commercial - eg someone on say lloyds who has a loan that zopa is servicing as an intermediary say. In other words are all the loans I am getting as a lender managed and credit checked with Zopa systems rather than the commercial feeder if there is such a thing.
|
|
coogaruk
Hello everyone! Anyone remember me?
Posts: 706
Likes: 464
|
Post by coogaruk on May 12, 2018 12:11:04 GMT
What do you think will cause p2p to be over in 3-5 years? Earnings? Losses? Other investment models available? Other? The major p2p platforms will by then have either become banks, been taken over by them or a mixture of the two.
|
|
coogaruk
Hello everyone! Anyone remember me?
Posts: 706
Likes: 464
|
Post by coogaruk on May 12, 2018 12:29:45 GMT
No “p2p” will be with us but it will be the Zopa, FC, AC and soon RS black box models - it’s what most people want. A simple system for higher rates, Your placing of the term p2p within quotes is in itself quite telling. I don't believe the way it's evolving is what most people want but it's what they'll end up with as their choices are eroded and almost certainly what the platforms want as they approach their exit strategies.
There is already a plethora of 'black box' investments for those who want them, on offer 'cheaply' from the major fund supermarkets: OEICs, Unit Trusts, Investment Trusts (even some "p2p" ones!) etc. with yields and risk models to suit most tastes.
|
|
angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 789
|
Post by angrysaveruk on May 13, 2018 10:29:39 GMT
What do you think will cause p2p to be over in 3-5 years? Earnings? Losses? Other investment models available? Other? The major p2p platforms will by then have either become banks, been taken over by them or a mixture of the two. I would argue P2P exists for a real economic reason - allowing savers/investors to make loans directly to borrowers rather than going through the massive overheads and regulatory overheads of banks. Problem is the government printing money and giving it away to banks means that holding any kind of cash asset is a bit foolish.
|
|
cb25
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 2,668
|
Post by cb25 on May 13, 2018 11:12:59 GMT
As long as P2P delivers acceptable returns for the risk, I don't really care how 'pure' their P2P model is.
|
|
|
|
Post by propman on May 14, 2018 12:29:24 GMT
As long as P2P delivers acceptable returns for the risk, I don't really care how 'pure' their P2P model is. No lesser an investor than Warren Buffett famously said that if you don't understand it, don't invest in it! We can understand lending money to borrowers, but add the increased intermediation now present, do "lenders" really understand what they are investing in now and therefore the potential risks?
|
|
aju
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,500
Likes: 924
|
Post by aju on May 14, 2018 13:26:22 GMT
I agree, Mr Buffet has become somewhat of a vindicated expert, but isn't that what we all get out of this forum and all the other forums, hopefully, a better understanding of the beast we investing in and the way it works especially for our own ends. Admittedly we are but a few mere mortals trying to get the best out of what is quite frankly in a lot of cases a huge lack of real and valid information.
The old adage of "previous returns are not in any way an indicator of future returns" should remain firmly tattooed across the back of our minds at all times though.
The other thing to bear in mind that all investments of this nature are inherently filled with losers and winners by the very nature of averages or whatever we are inclined to use.
I don't think I am giving it away by any definitions of the phrase but I know there are probably large numbers of people who might be thinking somewhat differently and I'm geared by my investing across each offering - in Zopa anyway - where I lend accordingly to my understanding and my risk levels I am prepared to accept. That all could change over the next couple of years but at the moment I am comfortable with my positions.
|
|
zlb
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,422
Likes: 333
|
Post by zlb on May 25, 2018 19:20:58 GMT
Over approx one year I've lost 39% of earnings through defaults not covered by sg, plus loan servicing fee. Calling that 40%. That's quite a chunk.
Over all very very very roughly (exact dates and data not assessed) the earnings indicate something like 3.6% on the conservative side. That's with 1:2 plus:core. So I've ended up with the average that was stated for Core, possibly.
A very rough hypothesis is that the 1% diversification of an initially too large lump sum could be the issue.
|
|
cb25
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 2,668
|
Post by cb25 on Jun 1, 2018 9:20:28 GMT
My YTD figures show Zopa have managed to lose me £182 so far this year, on a portfolio that currently contains 1361 loans so it's not that it lacks diversification. I've sent Zopa a 'feedback' email expressing my thoughts on this. As the poor returns have been a constant feature this year (in fact from Sept 2017, though only going literally negative about a month ago), I've been selling out. Far better imo to take the 1% hit in order to move the money elsewhere. Though some might say "sit tight, it's bound to pick up longer term", there's no way to know whether that's true short of trying it and risking ever more losses.
|
|
r00lish67
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,692
Likes: 4,048
|
Post by r00lish67 on Jun 1, 2018 9:35:37 GMT
My YTD figures show Zopa have managed to lose me £182 so far this year, on a portfolio that currently contains 1361 loans so it's not that it lacks diversification. I've sent Zopa a 'feedback' email expressing my thoughts on this. As the poor returns have been a constant feature this year (in fact from Sept 2017, though only going literally negative about a month ago), I've been selling out. Far better imo to take the 1% hit in order to move the money elsewhere. Though some might say "sit tight, it's bound to pick up longer term", there's no way to know whether that's true short of trying it and risking ever more losses. I went with "sit tight" initially, as I could see the logic. After 8 straight months of losing money, I took the 1% hit. Again, no way to know if your experience would be different though.
|
|
cb25
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 2,668
|
Post by cb25 on Jun 1, 2018 12:40:08 GMT
This is in what? Zopa Plus? Yes, Zopa Plus non-ISA. This account (loss of £182 YTD) with > £60K in it compares very badly to my Zopa Plus ISA a/c opened last year, which now has £20,900 in it and has made around £320 YTD. Very strange.
Also, my Zopa Plus non-ISA account has bad debt YTD that's 77% higher than my FC non-ISA account, despite the former having only 33% more money in it.
|
|
jw01
Posts: 62
Likes: 21
|
Post by jw01 on Jun 5, 2018 11:31:24 GMT
I have just been checking my records over the past 12 months, and I find that every month has new defaults and that the value (?) of defaults is greater than interest earned in the majority of those months.
My net position from June 2017 to May 2018 is -2%.
If this isn't the worst platform in the business it's certainly a strong contender
|
|
jaswells
Member of DD Central
Posts: 255
Likes: 184
|
Post by jaswells on Jun 5, 2018 11:46:36 GMT
Yep, same here. Zopa is my worst performer out of 8 platforms, just about breaking even. All changed pretty much in line with the change in product description and move into Zopa Plus.
|
|
ashtondav
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 1,092
|
Post by ashtondav on Jun 5, 2018 11:48:59 GMT
But have you been running down or selling your loanbook? If so, by definition, you will be left with non performing loans as with any other platform. If you haven’t been running down the loanbook then yes it’s bad news.
You only make expected returns if you hold for 5 years or more and reinvest repaid capital and interest.
|
|
