blender
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Post by blender on Sept 21, 2017 11:07:32 GMT
Posts elsewhere remind me that the removal of choice has serious implications for those who wish to avoid certain types of business, for ethical or other personal reasons. One of our accounts requires no involvement in the consumption of animal products. Others need to avoid breweries, or whatever is important to them for whatever reason. Now that cannot be done, you get what is chosen for you and you cannot sell loan parts that offend you - bacon and black pudding manufacturers perhaps.
If this were a true investment, without direct connection between the providers of funds and the end users of funds, then the distance can give some comfort. But this is still p2p - nominal in terms of control but very real in that there is a direct and visible legal contract between individual lenders and borrowers. The vegan lender must accept a personal contract with the abattoir, and the Muslim lender must accept a contract with a brewery. There's no way out that I know of except to sell the whole portfolio.
This is presumably an issue with other operators, which gets managed. But it is new to FC, and I have not spotted any warnings to those who might be unhappy with this situation. It will affect our attitude to a possible FC IFISA in 2018.
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jayjay
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Post by jayjay on Sept 21, 2017 13:19:06 GMT
It is very similar to equity investing where you can avoid Tobacco and Arms companies at the company level - but inevitably if you have a FTSE tracker you are still invested in them.
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Post by investor1925 on Sept 21, 2017 13:42:33 GMT
Posts elsewhere remind me that the removal of choice has serious implications for those who wish to avoid certain types of business, for ethical or other personal reasons. One of our accounts requires no involvement in the consumption of animal products. Others need to avoid breweries, or whatever is important to them for whatever reason. Now that cannot be done, you get what is chosen for you and you cannot sell loan parts that offend you - bacon and black pudding manufacturers perhaps.
If this were a true investment, without direct connection between the providers of funds and the end users of funds, then the distance can give some comfort. But this is still p2p - nominal in terms of control but very real in that there is a direct and visible legal contract between individual lenders and borrowers. The vegan lender must accept a personal contract with the abattoir, and the Muslim lender must accept a contract with a brewery. There's no way out that I know of except to sell the whole portfolio.
This is presumably an issue with other operators, which gets managed. But it is new to FC, and I have not spotted any warnings to those who might be unhappy with this situation. It will affect our attitude to a possible FC IFISA in 2018.
I've been investing in Assetz & you can chose which investments you want from the manual loan account. Even if you use any of the other ones (e.g property) you can still look them up & manually sell them. I'm slowly moving over as my investments in FC are paid back.
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blender
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Post by blender on Sept 21, 2017 15:18:00 GMT
It is very similar to equity investing where you can avoid Tobacco and Arms companies at the company level - but inevitably if you have a FTSE tracker you are still invested in them. Yes it is similar, but I think with a FTSE tracker you do not personally own a part of the offending business, but you have an interest in the performance of some shares in a nominee account - or something a bit distant like that. Whereas with p2p there is a direct contractual lending relationship between the vegan and the abattoir company - funds from you to them via FC's client account. And if it defaults you are tied into it forever, or as long as it takes.
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 21, 2017 15:21:46 GMT
Hadn't thought of the ethical angle. I avoid meat trade and livestock agriculture. And solicitors, of course, but not for ethical reasons. I'm going to have to think about this for a while, although my account seems to have an ethical reluctance to invest in anything so far.
I think I'm going to FC Off. This investing has become too passive for my taste.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Sept 21, 2017 16:41:38 GMT
I think I'm going to FC Off. This investing has become too passive for my taste. There's a lot of it about, CaptainC! 
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Post by william0101 on Sept 21, 2017 18:38:40 GMT
Posts elsewhere remind me that the removal of choice has serious implications for those who wish to avoid certain types of business, for ethical or other personal reasons. One of our accounts requires no involvement in the consumption of animal products. Others need to avoid breweries, or whatever is important to them for whatever reason. Now that cannot be done, you get what is chosen for you and you cannot sell loan parts that offend you - bacon and black pudding manufacturers perhaps.
If this were a true investment, without direct connection between the providers of funds and the end users of funds, then the distance can give some comfort. But this is still p2p - nominal in terms of control but very real in that there is a direct and visible legal contract between individual lenders and borrowers. The vegan lender must accept a personal contract with the abattoir, and the Muslim lender must accept a contract with a brewery. There's no way out that I know of except to sell the whole portfolio.
This is presumably an issue with other operators, which gets managed. But it is new to FC, and I have not spotted any warnings to those who might be unhappy with this situation. It will affect our attitude to a possible FC IFISA in 2018.
Although I don't invest of behalf of charities I do work for them and advise them and the remit about use and application of funds can be quite specific. It affects which banks you use and a whole lot of quite ordinary and real stuff involving money that isn't Daily Mail headline fodder. I understand completely that you were able to build small ethically balanced portfolios using FC before the 18th but can't now. It saddens me another person has missed the point and narrowed it to a religious issue.
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voss
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Post by voss on Sept 25, 2017 7:21:32 GMT
The vegan lender must accept a personal contract with the abattoir
It saddens me another person has missed the point and narrowed it to a religious issue. Vegans - religious?
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Sept 25, 2017 7:42:39 GMT
It saddens me another person has missed the point and narrowed it to a religious issue. Vegans - religious? Can be. It depends on the root of the belief. If you are vegan because you are Bhuddist, then that is so. Beliefs which affect investment choices do not need to be religious to deserve consideration.
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