aju
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Post by aju on Oct 11, 2017 14:12:04 GMT
So now the borrower names have been unmangled/restored I can join my loanbooks to my statements again. So I thought about what you said misotu and thought you may be interested in my ISA core loans lent over the last week or so. Its not that fast except for the 5th where it lent £887 in one day - many are not the full £10 new loan though. Date New Loans01/10/2017 3 02/10/2017 19 03/10/2017 18 04/10/2017 10 05/10/2017 90 06/10/2017 0 07/10/2017 0 08/10/2017 3 09/10/2017 16 10/10/2017 12 11/10/2017 7
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Post by misotu on Oct 12, 2017 9:30:29 GMT
Hello aju, yes it is interesting. The thing that really puzzles me, though, is that the weekly report provides average queue/match speeds for each product. IIRC, it slowed to 5 days for Core in the last report, 72 hours for the week before but just 48 hours for around a month before that.
Historically, I've always found the average lending speed pretty accurate. But on this basis Mr Misotu's full allowance should have been lent out months ago.
How has your lending speed been compared to the published "average"?
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aju
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Post by aju on Oct 12, 2017 20:21:14 GMT
Since the announcement that things were 2 months behind I kinda assumed that the weekly reports were out as well so I haven't recorded them for 2/3 weeks now. I've never really correlated them against my data I guess it was a bridge too far in terms of time etc. Recently since I have been lending quite a bit in ISA and its been taking some time. especially since I was limiting to £10/loan I assumed it would be much slower than most peoples lending.
Have you checked yours against these figures?.
Its possible that there was a lot of lending at the start as people were selling off their existing loans and ISA lenders were picking them up. Its not really new lending as such just a recycle. The rates might have improved as a result but individual rates may not have. Also I tend not to look at this average stuff as usually with averages theres some people at the slow end and some at the high end so at the individual level it will potentially be more haphazard.
I'll start collating the weeklies again and see if i get any correlation
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Post by misotu on Oct 17, 2017 10:57:34 GMT
Well, there's no caveat in the weekly reports and in my correspondence with Zopa they haven't indicated that the data for lending speed can't be relied on. So I'm relying on it as a rough guide. As you say, average figures are just that, and I realise that there will be a spread. But this is actually the nub of my conversation with Zopa: at what point does a individual account's deviation from the average become unacceptable? If, on average, funds are lent out in 48 hours consistently for a long period, is it acceptable that my £2000 takes, say, a year to lend? How about six months? How about a month? How about two weeks? I know that funds have remained unlent in Mr Misotu's account for over a month at a time when I lent £9000 in about a week, topping up the account with new funds on a daily basis. Clearly, my rate was at the higher end, his at the lower end of the range. But this is a huge range - I would say unacceptably so unless there is a serious factor affecting the lending speed for a particular account. In fact, since my projected rate is 0.3% below average, his 0.2% above, the situation should have been the reverse of what I saw. As you observed, when your funds are matching quickly, the rates tend to be lower. I don't know if there are fewer secondary market loans now, but I do know that the proportion of Safeguard loans is holding steady for Mr Misotu's lending at 28.1%. I had a holding reply on 6 October from Zopa saying "Over the past two days I have spent time with the lead member of our Investor Tribe pulling the data and platform information relevant to fully answer all of your points, and whilst this has been of great use, we need some further time to ascertain as to the reason behind the lending speeds on your husbands account vs platform expectations." Fair enough, but there's been nothing since. I am trying not to let the term "Investor Tribe" shake my confidence in them as a serious organisation. I tell myself that I have become deeply cynical over the years
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aju
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Post by aju on Oct 17, 2017 17:19:00 GMT
I like that one "Investor tribe" can I join in ;-)
Sorry my cynical radar was turned off and now its back on - just sort the bloody thing out zopa please c'mon.
One positive is that over the years zopa has been guilty of a few unfortunate errors but in my experience they have always come clean and put them right in the past. It can take time though and I wonder how many people might be affected by this clearly engine based mishap - well it seems clear to me. At first I thought you were going to say they had npoticed that auto lending was turned off in error - that happened to me recently when I screwed up and started lending in £20's rather than £10 it turned out my pulling the money out to correct the lend rate turned of the relend option - oops!
You are right to push this one hard though as i'm sure, like me, its yours and Mr misotu's hard earned money they are potentially playing fast and loose with.
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Post by misotu on Oct 28, 2017 9:12:57 GMT
Well, I've had a reply from Zopa.
They confirm that my husband's account has been "de-prioritised". This, apparently, is because his account has a projected return "around" that projected for the Core product (actually 0.2% above).
The algorithm, they advise me, is prioritising those above or below projected.
The data shows that my husband had funds in matching for more than a month in both September and October. This at a time when average matching has been from 48 hours to 7 days, according to the weekly report. Understand that, given around £1900 on offer, 190 different loans are needed for £10 chunks. But as Zopa says, the secondary market is very "healthy". For some reason, Mr M's Safeguard % is around 28% - well short of the average which, according to Zopa, was 50% a short while ago. My own loanbook is over 70% Safeguard. So he's not seeing very much of that healthy secondary market, either.
Now I understand some tweaking has to happen in order to balance rates and so on. But I am arguing that the extent to which his account has been deprioritised is unreasonable. I've looked at the period for which you kindly provided data:
Date New Loans
aju Mr M 01/10/2017 3 2 02/10/2017 19 17 03/10/2017 18 15 04/10/2017 10 8 05/10/2017 90 12 06/10/2017 0 9 07/10/2017 0 4 08/10/2017 3 3 09/10/2017 16 15 10/10/2017 12 12 11/10/2017 7 10
So on the whole, his matches track yours except on the 5th. But that delivers 178 matches vs 107 matches over that period. Which is quite a disparity. I don't think he has made more than 20 matches in one day since the middle of August.
Right now, the repayments from his ISA and the tiny repayments transferred from his Classic account (around £3,500 on loan) are again outstripping the amounts he is lending. In the last 4 days, he has made just 8 matches. Which probably means it has been slow across the platform for the last few days. But this is *way* off the matching rates indicated by the weekly report (4 days for Core).
I am girding my loins to explain to the "Investment Stakeholders"* that while a certain amount of algorithmic tweaking of individual lending is obviously necessary, the extent to which the algorithm is deprioritising Mr M's funds is unacceptable and results in a fairly large sum languishing in matching for artificially long periods earning nothing. They don't understand why Mr M won't happily sacrifice himself on the altar of Zopa Corporate Objectives.
Wish me luck.
* not sure what happened to the "Investment Tribe". I hope they're ok.
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aju
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Post by aju on Oct 28, 2017 15:26:50 GMT
I checked again using the main loanbook and making sure that anything lent on the relevant day was included. I created a report to make it easier to catch the numbers.
Some of the items I must have originally checked against non closed items. One item opened on 1/10 and then promptly closed on 3/10. I've rechecked my numbers and now they are correct. One thing I did notice in checking them against my old numbers is that I have to ignore the day I download the csv as they could change again later in the day - Silly me!.
Using Mrs Aju as a guide - I had downloaded her ISA Alltime csv on the 25th so I stopped at 24/10 - and also checking them against my data one has to be careful what is in different queues too as lending is at different times.
I'm not sure Mr M's look that bad - what I will say though is that things have again slowed down considerably for Mrs Aju, and me as well, but mine is almost fully lent out and almost under its own steam (Relending only). I still have £125 in queue. Its been taking a little longer for Mrs Aju over the last few days (checking the online data rather than csv wise). Looking at the overall lending amounts too. The week-ending lent amounts may also be relevant.
I'm not wholly convinced there is anything more than just too many lenders feeding into not enough ISA loans perhaps. Who knows. Good luck with your prodding the relevant tribes (oops i meant stakeholders!) ;-)
Zopa keeps saying that classic is not lending as fast or as much but both myself and Mrs Aju are still getting good relend on it, if the weekly lending on classic is anything to go by. Of course that will stop on Nov 30th. But I'll move the relend to another product on the day or sometime close to the day.
BTW its a bit of a faff still but I used the "Courier New" for the tables - shame its not possible to load tables into this site easier.
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Post by misotu on Oct 31, 2017 10:52:23 GMT
I'm not wholly convinced there is anything more than just too many lenders feeding into not enough ISA loans perhaps. Who knows.
It's possible. I wish Zopa could convince me that is true. But you are indicating that your allowance is now pretty much lent, at the end of October. Mine was completely lent out by the end of August, crazily. But my projected return is 8% below the projection for Core, which really should not have happened. And at September/October rates, Mr M will take another 3 months (or more) to lend his ISA allowance.
Now that seems like quite a difference in lending speed to me!
And in fact, the disparity is worse than it looks because I messed up - back in July the website was having a bit of a wobbler and I failed to notice that one deposit in his account was credited very late and sent a further top-up, with the result that his funds on offer tipped over £2000 :blush: He was lending quickly then and had a load of £20 loans by the time I next checked in. So I decided to let it run for a while - almost a month - untill he had around £4000 lent out in larger chunks. In the hope that I wouldn't get a disproportionate number of £20 loans go bad and drag down the return. So for a month he should have been lending at double speed by comparison with the rest of us ...
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