hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jun 12, 2018 16:10:07 GMT
So the borrower lied about the funds?
I am very wary of being a soft touch with borrowers nowadays. Hopefully we don’t have another delboy.
Heavily indebted, from defaultable debt is not the same as heavily invested
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Post by mrclondon on Jun 12, 2018 16:23:30 GMT
I can't help but think the overdue interest due to MT is a minor issue compared to the fact that in just 2.5 months (wef 28th Aug) the loan to the second finance provider (loan no. 3 sequentially) will start charging punitive default interest if their loan isn't refinanced. The latest update states the obvious that refinance with a mainstream provider is likely to require some trading history. But the story is more work is needed on the building before it can open, there remains no opening date announcement, and from mid July family holidays will likely reduce interest in a new local crafts outlet even if it opens in August.
The risk is the second finance provider doesn't provide much forbearance on their loan, and forces LPA appointment before a trading history can be established. (There again MT lenders will get first dibs on the forced sale, so it may stay the hand of the second finance provider if there is doubt over the valuation)
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Jun 12, 2018 16:27:37 GMT
I am very wary of being a soft touch with borrowers nowadays. Hopefully we don’t have another delboy. Nope, not another Del Boy - he actually opened his market stall to sell his 'antiques'.
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jsmill
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Post by jsmill on Jun 12, 2018 16:32:40 GMT
Simply not good enough in terms of an update: 1) "We have seen efforts that the borrower is making efforts to find funds". "What on earth does that mean, what are they actually doing to raise the cash? More importantly why don't they have the cash in the first place!!! 2) "Progress continues to be made". Excellent, how much? No even approximate time scales mentioned. 3) "Borrower heavily invested". As hazellend pointed out heavily indebted would be a better description. 4) "We are inclined to believe that it is in our lenders best interest to allow borrower to complete the project". Fantastic, how about evidence? Does he have the funds to do so, have you checked this? Are there still any realistic tenants otherwise you aren't going to have a trading history to base an exit on?
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Post by westcountry on Jun 12, 2018 18:24:46 GMT
In the Pre-drawdown Supplementary Information (updated at 11.30am on the 10th October) on the loan page it states:
"Whilst there should be sufficient income coverage from the leases to service the MoneyThing loan, the borrower has sufficient additional sources of income derived from other investments and resources."
Whereas part of today's update states:
"We have seen evidence that the borrower is making efforts to find funds to pay the outstanding interest and we were hoping to receive funds today but that is unfortunately not the case."
What happened to the borrower's additional sources of income??? I'm not impressed/optimistic :-(
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mary
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Post by mary on Jun 12, 2018 18:26:56 GMT
Apparently, in October, tenants were preparing to set up shop for an opening fairly soon, ready for Christmas.
8 months on, one wonders if those prospective tenants have starved to death due to a lack of space from which to scrape a living?
Struggling to see how this is going to end well for anyone.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Jun 13, 2018 10:55:22 GMT
It is interesting they can't open a large part of the site and gradually open the rest over the next few weeks or even months. I assume some of the site is ready or nearly ready after all this time.
It would be interesting to know the percentage of the site that currently has signed up tenants. Hopefully it is fully let given the time they have had to attract vendors.
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Carter
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Post by Carter on Jun 13, 2018 11:16:10 GMT
1) "We have seen efforts that the borrower is making efforts to find funds". "What on earth does that mean, what are they actually doing to raise the cash? More importantly why don't they have the cash in the first place!!! 2) "Progress continues to be made". Excellent, how much? No even approximate time scales mentioned. 3) "Borrower heavily invested". As hazellend pointed out heavily indebted would be a better description. 4) "We are inclined to believe that it is in our lenders best interest to allow borrower to complete the project". Fantastic, how about evidence? Does he have the funds to do so, have you checked this? Are there still any realistic tenants otherwise you aren't going to have a trading history to base an exit on?
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Jun 13, 2018 12:11:39 GMT
1) "We have seen efforts that the borrower is making efforts to find funds". "What on earth does that mean, what are they actually doing to raise the cash? More importantly why don't they have the cash in the first place!!! 2) "Progress continues to be made". Excellent, how much? No even approximate time scales mentioned. 3) "Borrower heavily invested". As hazellend pointed out heavily indebted would be a better description. 4) "We are inclined to believe that it is in our lenders best interest to allow borrower to complete the project". Fantastic, how about evidence? Does he have the funds to do so, have you checked this? Are there still any realistic tenants otherwise you aren't going to have a trading history to base an exit on? View AttachmentSee that’s where he’s going wrong it’s normally down the back of the sofa
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Post by giraffee on Jun 14, 2018 15:14:12 GMT
MoneyThing, may we know what is pending/stopping the place from opening/trading?
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Post by tackerbear on Jun 15, 2018 16:04:24 GMT
Maybe I missed something here, but iare not the two interest payments overdue on both loans associated with this borrower now a month overdue? The paucity of information provided or more particularly not being provided by MoneyThing in relation to these loans that includes at least the status of the much delayed redevelopment works (which seem to have run many months overdue and presumably way over budget) together with the regular and quite substantial further borrowings which MoneyThing have permitted against this property must be deeply troubling for investors in these loans. As evidence of or an indication of MoneyThing’s attention to oversight of what is evidently a borrower who got into considerable trouble not long after these loans were made (hopefully one of many lessons to be learned about verification of the financial condition of borrowers and the representations they make when MoneyThing is considering taking on new borrowers) this sorry tale makes for astonishing reading! If we hadn’t been witnesses to this slow motion train crash and repeated entreaties to be patient and not to worry but everything will work out in the end, you probably wouldn’t believe this story. Sadly it is a story of many broken promises and a miserable record of patchy and unedifying “updates” which appear more concerned to avoid lenders putting pressure on MoneyThing to take the tough decisions about these loans that investors should be entitled to expect to be taken to protect their interests than to provide fulsome and truthful explanations as to what really has been going on here. How could these loans have been non-performing for more than a month especially when we are referring to the month IMMEDIATELY AFTER the previous month when payment of interest was several weeks late as well without there having been formal steps taken to exercise the first mortgage rights that MoneyThing holds on behalf of investors??? The deafening silence and lack of action by MoneyThing is deeply disconcerting and simply makes no sense and in my experience if it makes no sense it’s because it doesn’t make sense! This inaction makes no sense at all! MoneyThing where are you and why are you not taking forceful action to protect the interests of investors? Surely you can’t still believe the rubbish excuses we have heard about interest being brought up to date momentarily when the Borrower (presumably Mr ****** the sole director) has told you that they are out and about trying to “raise the money” to pay the long overdue interest and pre-pay the next month’s (that would be the month now just past) interest that we were promised as well??? How are they going to finish this development if they are out and about trying to borrow the money they need to pay the interest on these loans?? And they already have 2nd and 3rd mortgages on this property!! I thought these people told you and presumably proved to you that they were very wealthy and successful property developers from Monaco. Obviously what we have heard recently would suggest those representations were unreliable at best! The whole story sounds like bunkum from beginning to end....start to what looks like a very sad finish! Your early response would be welcomed by all!
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Jun 15, 2018 21:14:44 GMT
Maybe I missed something here, but iare not the two interest payments overdue on both loans associated with this borrower now a month overdue? The paucity of information provided or more particularly not being provided by MoneyThing in relation to these loans that includes at least the status of the much delayed redevelopment works (which seem to have run many months overdue and presumably way over budget) together with the regular and quite substantial further borrowings which MoneyThing have permitted against this property must be deeply troubling for investors in these loans. As evidence of or an indication of MoneyThing’s attention to oversight of what is evidently a borrower who got into considerable trouble not long after these loans were made (hopefully one of many lessons to be learned about verification of the financial condition of borrowers and the representations they make when MoneyThing is considering taking on new borrowers) this sorry tale makes for astonishing reading! If we hadn’t been witnesses to this slow motion train crash and repeated entreaties to be patient and not to worry but everything will work out in the end, you probably wouldn’t believe this story. Sadly it is a story of many broken promises and a miserable record of patchy and unedifying “updates” which appear more concerned to avoid lenders putting pressure on MoneyThing to take the tough decisions about these loans that investors should be entitled to expect to be taken to protect their interests than to provide fulsome and truthful explanations as to what really has been going on here. How could these loans have been non-performing for more than a month especially when we are referring to the month IMMEDIATELY AFTER the previous month when payment of interest was several weeks late as well without there having been formal steps taken to exercise the first mortgage rights that MoneyThing holds on behalf of investors??? The deafening silence and lack of action by MoneyThing is deeply disconcerting and simply makes no sense and in my experience if it makes no sense it’s because it doesn’t make sense! This inaction makes no sense at all! MoneyThing where are you and why are you not taking forceful action to protect the interests of investors? Surely you can’t still believe the rubbish excuses we have heard about interest being brought up to date momentarily when the Borrower (presumably Mr ****** the sole director) has told you that they are out and about trying to “raise the money” to pay the long overdue interest and pre-pay the next month’s (that would be the month now just past) interest that we were promised as well??? How are they going to finish this development if they are out and about trying to borrow the money they need to pay the interest on these loans?? And they already have 2nd and 3rd mortgages on this property!! I thought these people told you and presumably proved to you that they were very wealthy and successful property developers from Monaco. Obviously what we have heard recently would suggest those representations were unreliable at best! The whole story sounds like bunkum from beginning to end....start to what looks like a very sad finish! Your early response would be welcomed by all!Not so sure you can claim you speak for all....count me out for starters.....I'm not entirely happy ...but I have a tad more faith than you
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trevor
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Post by trevor on Jun 15, 2018 21:28:17 GMT
If the were very wealthy people from Monaco why would they need a loan from MT?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jun 15, 2018 21:40:52 GMT
If the were very wealthy people from Monaco why would they need a loan from MT? Seems to be what very wealthy people do for some reason. Never use your own money or something like that...
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Jun 16, 2018 8:53:58 GMT
If the were very wealthy people from Monaco why would they need a loan from MT? Asset rich cash poor?
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