jjc
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Post by jjc on Oct 17, 2017 15:02:36 GMT
To bring up another point that hasn't yet been covered. If I haven't missed something the valuation is based on the residual value of the project, with comparables used to estimate the GDV. Additionally, if I haven't missed anything, there's no planning permission, not even outline planning permission. In my opinion this means that a planning risk discount needs to be applied to the valuation. An allied point is why does the borrower need the money now? He has already paid for it and cannot start work on it until when and if he gets PP. Perhaps he needs it for another project? We have seen this before. Quite a few other projects they have on atm (& an upcoming biggie in Manchester with almost identical timelines to this one, which might well pose challenges), check out their website. I started looking at things earlier to get a wider view of the group's projects, gearing & likely cashflow situation, but have put all on hold now. There are questions that need to be answered before any more dd is done on this (imo).
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Post by charlata on Oct 17, 2017 15:08:24 GMT
Platforms don't seem to be held in very high esteem round here. One badly worded reply to one question, which was then clarified.
NP and TW seem to have a good track record in Bradford. They've brought equity to the project. The comments on skyscrapercity are positive. This seems to be a genuine attempt to develop a grand old building.
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stokeloans
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Post by stokeloans on Oct 17, 2017 15:20:16 GMT
Platforms don't seem to be held in very high esteem round here. One badly worded reply to one question, which was then clarified. NP and TW seem to have a good track record in Bradford. They've brought equity to the project. The comments on skyscrapercity are positive. This seems to be a genuine attempt to develop a grand old building. You're new here,stick around and you'll see why ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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romy
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Post by romy on Oct 17, 2017 16:00:02 GMT
But they've got as far as real actual planning permission submission, which may be decided as early as the end of November so they have had to spend cash on - architects fees ( usually not small but perhaps someone has better knowledge than me on likely size)
- Lots of other professionals to get to the planning stage e.g. quantity surveyors, M&E specialists, transport surveys
- pre-application meetings with planners
- Specific stuff for listed building assessment?
- up to and including bat surveys...
It's stated that they've already done work on removing asbestos and making the place safe and secure, which again is cost of specialist firm and permissions for asbestos.
If he is really planning for starting work before Christmas then surely he will need to now be setting up detailed contracts for the work with a variety of contractors most of whom will need several weeks notice to get mobilised ( personally would think before Xmas is too optimistic given builders usually expect 2 week break then).
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romy
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Post by romy on Oct 17, 2017 16:01:28 GMT
I meant to say in the design statement it says that it's aimed at young professionals, though I must say the layout looks mainly like typical student studio flats.
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romy
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Post by romy on Oct 17, 2017 16:03:54 GMT
...and thirdly I think MT have responded very swiftly when they saw that the concerns being raised here - much quicker than most platforms.
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james100
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Post by james100 on Oct 17, 2017 16:12:43 GMT
If he is really planning for starting work before Christmas then surely he will need to now be setting up detailed contracts for the work with a variety of contractors most of whom will need several weeks notice to get mobilised ( personally would think before Xmas is too optimistic given builders usually expect 2 week break then). It's already been announced that the principal contractor is the sister company P**** C***** Ltd. Since NP is director (alongside mum & brother) I assume streamlined resource management.
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Post by charlata on Oct 17, 2017 16:44:08 GMT
Platforms don't seem to be held in very high esteem round here. One badly worded reply to one question, which was then clarified. NP and TW seem to have a good track record in Bradford. They've brought equity to the project. The comments on skyscrapercity are positive. This seems to be a genuine attempt to develop a grand old building. You're new here,stick around and you'll see why ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Duly warned ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) ...but if they're as bad as you say, doesn't that beg a rather obvious question?
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am
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Post by am on Oct 17, 2017 16:45:25 GMT
Platforms don't seem to be held in very high esteem round here. One badly worded reply to one question, which was then clarified. NP and TW seem to have a good track record in Bradford. They've brought equity to the project. The comments on skyscrapercity are positive. This seems to be a genuine attempt to develop a grand old building. MoneyThing is in fact held in quite high esteem here. In the case of this loan (and in general) lenders want to make their own personal judgements about the viability of the project and the valuation of the security. Valuation reports are an art, not a science; even good valuation reports can be badly wrong when it comes to exercising the security. So, it's a natural step to look at the price history of the property; it gives you some idea of the wisdom of the market. We were told that the borrower paid £2m for the property, which gives us a comfortable 37.5% LTV. But someone checked (I'm guessing) the price paid data at the Land Registry, and found that the price paid was £1m, giving us a risky 75% LTV. Now, this was a distressed sale, and we're told that the borrower has spent an additional £1.2m on the property, so hopefully the first figure is a closer estimate to the real value. It is likely that the incorrect figure is just a mistake; somewhere along the chain of transmission someone misunderstood what the number represented. (If only because a deliberate misrepresentation would be found out.) As lenders what we expect is information that is accurate, and complete as far as is compatible with commercial confidentiality, borrower privacy, and reasonable efforts on the part of platforms (there's a tension with keeping costs down). P2P is a relatively new business, and platforms are learning on the job, and developing their processes in response to experience, customer feedback and FCA oversight. But checking the price paid data is a simple action which should already be part of the introducer's due diligence process, and the platform's due diligence process. (The check could have been omitted due to an oversight, or maybe performed early on and the discrepancy with the report provided later not noticed.)
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stokeloans
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Post by stokeloans on Oct 17, 2017 16:58:13 GMT
You're new here,stick around and you'll see why ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Duly warned ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) ...but if they're as bad as you say, doesn't that beg a rather obvious question? That question being why invest with these platforms ? Where else are you going to get rates of return like they offer ? It's a case of buyer beware,don't take what they tell you as being fact,more often that not it's total fabrication,not least by the valuers. It's up to you as the investor to do your research,you've made a good start by joining this forum.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Oct 17, 2017 19:37:01 GMT
seeingred It is certainly not the platform reputation that Ed has worked so hard and effectively to build over the last couple of years. I think we are getting close to formulating a new set of ground rules (sorry about the pun) for building projects across all P2P platforms. 1. Be honest about the borrower. WE WILL FIND OUT. 2. Don't feed us stupid valuations stamped RICS approved. If we choke on them, you may suffer as well. These things take time. 3. Don't use weasel words. Most of us speak English. Some of us even taught it. 4. Some people have short memories. Computers do not. 5. Keep properly abreast of what is going on on-site. We need REGULAR and proper photographs of progress for DFL projects. 6. Drone technology will increasingly be brought to bear for site inspection. Whether platforms like it or not. 7. Some investors are highly qualified and experienced builders, surveyors, scientists, and self made millionaires. Stop treating us as if we are children. A resounding and ABSOLUTE " Here, here" from moi, seeingred. (or is it "Hear, hear" ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) )
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Oct 17, 2017 19:43:32 GMT
The world has gone full circle on this one.I started out with the view - lovely old building, worthwhile project to support (and I like supporting worthwhile conversions of old iconic buildings into good residential city centre accommodation - I have over £100k in various of these across several platforms). But, oh dear me - the borrower and the family criminal record. Then I started to read more about the family, the borrowers achievements, and I came to the view I would go with him on this one. Many successful and straight people have a dark secret somewhere. We are allowed a mistake or two in life. The borrowers statement (which MT should have included previously) didn't convince me - I had already been convinced. But a mole waved a red flag "purchase price". Alarm bells. MT said one thing, the LR said another. Could I no longer trust MT? Now it is the PROJECT and indeed the MT platform and not the borrower that is giving me second thoughts. I would have expected better. The past year in P2P have shown TIME AND TIME AGAIN that when platforms omit information or try to gloss over some pertinent facts, these are both discovered and then staked out in the sun while the forum vultures gather. It seems platforms need to learn that WE WILL FIND OUT. So why not save everyone a lot of time and trouble (not to mention bad forum comment that will be available on-line forever) by being honest and upfront in the first place?. SophieThing Because they take everything the borrowers tell them at face value Yes, WE will find out, but The Lemmings and The Lazy won't, so most Platforms don't give a toss, because funds are are still satisfactorily filling their loans without us Old Guard contributing. Very aware Regular Readers know all this, my posting is for the benefit of Newbies who hopefully are wising up. Fast.
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Oct 17, 2017 20:06:46 GMT
Yes, WE will find out, but The Lemmings and The Lazy won't, so most Platforms don't give a toss, because funds are are still satisfactorily filling their loans without us Old Guard contributing. Very aware Regular Readers know all this, my posting is for the benefit of Newbies who hopefully are wising up. Fast. The number of readers here is 90% of the number of registered lenders on MT, so likely all or nearly all active MT users are here. AIUI MT relied largely on this forum to recruit new lenders. If MT are ignoring us and relying on others they are making a big mistake. (I don't actually think they are, I believe that they are just out of their depth.)
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derbyfella
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Post by derbyfella on Oct 17, 2017 21:28:34 GMT
Unless I'm very much mistaken, Mum also appears to be director of Pxxxx Hxxxx Ltd (50% holder of this SPV). and PA to CEO of this company
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derbyfella
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Post by derbyfella on Oct 17, 2017 21:32:08 GMT
By which I imply nothing. Same imho for the statement, they are just words on which to base an opinion on and errr....I don't think opinions alone are a great reason to be basing an investment on.
That being said I haven yet decided whether I am going to invest in this......if I do it wont be as significant as I originally was to
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