SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 1, 2017 8:38:46 GMT
I sold the last of my sell-able ReBS loans in mid-2016, leaving me with a handful of highly dubious defaulted loans totalling £581.19. Since that time, not one penny of capital has been recovered across the 7 loans (although I did receive a princely £6.42 of interest from S******d Electronics (International) Limited back in April). Each month I log into my long-dormant ReBS account and find them still projecting a loss of only £364.53, implying the future recovery of £216.66 of capital. But the individual loan recovery probabilities given are laughable: Loan Default date Last repayment Recovery probability Amount S******d Electronics (International) Limited 2016-03-23 2017-04-28 40% £89.82 W***fit Direct Ltd 2016-02-19 2016-05-27 90% £69.60 FIT*** E******** HIRE LIMITED 2016-04-21 2016-06-20 20% £100.83 M.*.*. (CONSULTANTS) LIMITED 2016-03-10 2016-02-09 30% £114.73 D****m Collections Ltd 2016-07-27 2016-06-14 20% £81.06 C*****L KITCHENS LTD 2016-06-29 2016-04-25 20% £50.94 S*****LAND SUPER STORE LTD 2016-04-18 2016-01-29 50% £74.21 Total: £ 581.19 The 2 "Fit***" loans are entirely linked (and apparently now under investigation by the Police), yet one is projected at 20% recovery and the other 90% !? The S*****land "Superstore" (sic) last received at update 9 months ago (!) and, IMO, has minimal prospect of recovery, yet ReBS still project that lenders will get back 50% !? Conversely, the last update (back in July) on the M.*.* Consultants loan waxed lyrical about the prospects of 95p-100p/£ payments from the CVA, yet the loan is rated at 30% recovery probability. As for the others, the only prudent assessment of the various interminable bankruptcy proceedings is that nothing is likely to be recovered danraj / rebsrep , your recovery projections are a complete joke!! |
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Post by dodgeydave on Nov 1, 2017 12:23:52 GMT
It was mentioned by the director before that recovery rates are confidential.
It would be great to see some actual figures .
The longer the recovery goes on the better for everyone except us lenders.
ReBS and Ameuri Ltd are the main beneficiaries with fee's added.
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Post by michaelrebs on Nov 2, 2017 16:33:12 GMT
Hi All,
The estimated recovery probabilities were implemented following consultation with lenders and are used to provide a gauge as to the perceived recoverability of each loan, so that lenders can more easily forecast what returns and losses they can expect. This is why they are displayed in your 'estimated loss' dashboard tile so that lenders may access an illustrative estimation of their estimated loss on loans which are in default.
When a loan is first declared as in default, the estimated recovery probability is set at the overall average platform rate. This percentage is revised incrementally as our recovery action progresses and more information is known.
We have reviewed the recovery estimates on the loans that you have listed and have found that one is now out of date which has now been revised. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.
I am sorry to hear of the defaulted loans that you have investments in and I can certainly appreciate the frustration caused by having capital tied up in defaulted loans at various points in our recovery process. As I am sure you have realised from your time on the platform thus far, legal recovery routes can often involve a long and drawn out process. Throughout the process, it is often necessary to amend the estimated recovery probability to either increase or decrease it as more information is known. A recent example of this was our most recently fully recovered loan. After almost three years in default, we were able to secure a full repayment of all capital and interest. For most of this period, the estimated recovery percentage was set at around 50% before we were able to conclude our recovery action secure a full recovery.
Looking at your investments, I can see that you have experienced one full recovery thus far. Reviewing the list of your current defaulted investments, please rest assured that our recovery action will continue on each one of the loans which you have listed and currently expect capital and interest recoveries . Whilst we cannot offer any assurances on the exact time-frame or quantum of the eventual recoveries, in one in particular, we expect a capital recovery imminently.
Best Regards,
Michael
The ReBS Team
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brianlom1
Member of DD Central
He's not the Messiah, he's a very naughty boy!
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Post by brianlom1 on Nov 2, 2017 18:21:26 GMT
Hi All, The estimated recovery probabilities were implemented following consultation with lenders and are used to provide a gauge as to the perceived recoverability of each loan, so that lenders can more easily forecast what returns and losses they can expect. This is why they are displayed in your 'estimated loss' dashboard tile so that lenders may access an illustrative estimation of their estimated loss on loans which are in default. When a loan is first declared as in default, the estimated recovery probability is set at the overall average platform rate. This percentage is revised incrementally as our recovery action progresses and more information is known. We have reviewed the recovery estimates on the loans that you have listed and have found that one is now out of date which has now been revised. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I am sorry to hear of the defaulted loans that you have investments in and I can certainly appreciate the frustration caused by having capital tied up in defaulted loans at various points in our recovery process. As I am sure you have realised from your time on the platform thus far, legal recovery routes can often involve a long and drawn out process. Throughout the process, it is often necessary to amend the estimated recovery probability to either increase or decrease it as more information is known. A recent example of this was our most recently fully recovered loan. After almost three years in default, we were able to secure a full repayment of all capital and interest. For most of this period, the estimated recovery percentage was set at around 50% before we were able to conclude our recovery action secure a full recovery. Looking at your investments, I can see that you have experienced one full recovery thus far. Reviewing the list of your current defaulted investments, please rest assured that our recovery action will continue on each one of the loans which you have listed and currently expect capital and interest recoveries . Whilst we cannot offer any assurances on the exact time-frame or quantum of the eventual recoveries, in one in particular, we expect a capital recovery imminently. Best Regards, Michael The ReBS Team Michael, I had great expectations when you first joined ReBS but I now find it impossible to distinguish between your platitudes and those of danraj himself. Contrary to your assertion, 'recovery probability' was not introduced at the request of lenders, it was a thinly disguised attempt by ReBS to hide the appalling default figures. All too often, amendments to 'recovery probability' are made without prior warning and bear no relation to the infrequent updates that may or may not have been provided. Take as an example last week's W*****t D****t update in which you stated "For now, we hope lenders can rest assured that we are pursuing every potential avenue open to us to obtain a recovery on lenders’ funds", this gives absolutely no indication that the forecast recovery figure was about to be slashed from 90% to 10%. I now fully expect the cabal of ReBS trolls to launch a personal tirade, this appears to be standard practice for your failing organisation. Brian
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SteveT
Member of DD Central
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Post by SteveT on Nov 3, 2017 9:04:16 GMT
Hi All, The estimated recovery probabilities were implemented following consultation with lenders and are used to provide a gauge as to the perceived recoverability of each loan, so that lenders can more easily forecast what returns and losses they can expect. This is why they are displayed in your 'estimated loss' dashboard tile so that lenders may access an illustrative estimation of their estimated loss on loans which are in default. When a loan is first declared as in default, the estimated recovery probability is set at the overall average platform rate. This percentage is revised incrementally as our recovery action progresses and more information is known. We have reviewed the recovery estimates on the loans that you have listed and have found that one is now out of date which has now been revised. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I am sorry to hear of the defaulted loans that you have investments in and I can certainly appreciate the frustration caused by having capital tied up in defaulted loans at various points in our recovery process. As I am sure you have realised from your time on the platform thus far, legal recovery routes can often involve a long and drawn out process. Throughout the process, it is often necessary to amend the estimated recovery probability to either increase or decrease it as more information is known. A recent example of this was our most recently fully recovered loan. After almost three years in default, we were able to secure a full repayment of all capital and interest. For most of this period, the estimated recovery percentage was set at around 50% before we were able to conclude our recovery action secure a full recovery. Looking at your investments, I can see that you have experienced one full recovery thus far. Reviewing the list of your current defaulted investments, please rest assured that our recovery action will continue on each one of the loans which you have listed and currently expect capital and interest recoveries . Whilst we cannot offer any assurances on the exact time-frame or quantum of the eventual recoveries, in one in particular, we expect a capital recovery imminently. Best Regards, Michael The ReBS Team Michael, thanks for getting around to reviewing your recovery projections. In fact, I see that 3 have now been slashed, not just 1: the 2 fit**** loans (to 10%, from 90% and 20% respectively) and the "super"-market loan (to 10%, from 50%). As a result, your forecast is that I will lose £459.98 of my outstanding £581.19 capital (ie. a 79% write-off), which now feels depressingly realistic IMO. Incidentally, the one "full recovery" you refer to was actually a long-delayed refinance away by the borrower (R****side Hi-Fi), which isn't quite the same thing. danraj, I would love to be shot of ReBS completely (as I imagine you would like to be shot of me, giving your various past reports of my posts to the Mods for "trolling"). The prospect of having to log in monthly for several years to come is not enticing. I make you an offer, since I know you've offered to buy out other critical ReBS lenders in the past: Buy my defaulted loan parts from me at the 21p / £ rate that Michael is now projecting and let me close my ReBS account entirely, so I no longer need maintain a ReBS ledger in my company accounts. In return, I will then promise never to post about ReBS again. PM me if you wish to take this up!
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 3, 2017 9:44:35 GMT
And if they take you up on it, please PM me and I'll take the same offer.
Heck, I'll take 15p in the £ if anyone wants to buy me out at that rate (that's a discount for me getting it now, instead of my executor getting it in 2050).
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 3, 2017 15:39:16 GMT
Has anyone recorded projected vs actual recoveries?
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 3, 2017 15:47:12 GMT
Has anyone recorded projected vs actual recoveries? Well apart from the refinance SteveT mentioned the recoveries so far (on defaulted loans, at least those I hold) have all been a nice round 0, so recording those is rather content free. Until recently the projections had never, afaik, changed, and can be summarised as 'What HAVE you been smoking?!?".
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Nov 4, 2017 23:45:53 GMT
The same happens on Thincats, they project a good recovery rate, yet in the end recoveries are or are likely to be close to zero.
If you lend to such high risk SME businesses, then if they default, there will be very few assets left in the business and any such recoveries will go to paying the solicitors and administrators! Leaving nothing. Left for us.
Hence why I bailed out SME due to the risk vs reward being so poor. And we are in benign times, a recession could cause defaults to sky rocket and sink some of these p2p SME sites, leaving investors with heavy loses.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 5, 2017 1:32:38 GMT
Forgive my ignorance SteveT, but what does "Recovery probability" mean? |
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SteveT
Member of DD Central
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Post by SteveT on Nov 5, 2017 5:27:37 GMT
Forgive my ignorance SteveT, but what does "Recovery probability" mean? It’s simply a figure that ReBS apply to each defaulted loan indicating the % of capital they project will be recovered.
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Post by bluechip on Nov 5, 2017 8:22:31 GMT
I trust a Vietnamese taxi driver more than I trust the BS written on my defaulted loans. Just like the OP, I hate my monthly logon to the ReBS website to see nothing has happened with each and every loan that defaulted long, long long ago. Just because ReBS were clearly naive (maybe being too kind) in letting many of these companies use their platform to fleece people like me, it doesn't mean we are mugs. Most of us are just guilty or believing what we read and assuming there was some actual due diligence carried out. A tip for free - stop treating people with hard earned money to invest, like they were born yesterday. We aren't the same caliber of people that have lied and cheated to borrow, take a big step back and learn to empathise and understand that you are dealing with two different markets!
99% of the negative PR could have been avoided with a bit of candor. Not simply transferring the BS you seemingly lap up from debtors onto the people that funded this debacle in the first place. Most of us can accept that we were chancing our arm investing in this sector (especially this platform) and have paid the price, what I and I assume others are so angry about is the manner in which it is being dealt with now the SHTF. It doesn't matter now really, you could offer me all of my money back, plus 100% on top for the agro and I would tell you to take a running jump if I had to invest 1 penny of my capital in your platform again - just looking at your website heightens my blood pressure!
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 5, 2017 11:29:11 GMT
Forgive my ignorance SteveT , but what does "Recovery probability" mean? It’s simply a figure that ReBS apply to each defaulted loan indicating the % of capital they project will be recovered. Thanks. Slightly odd terminology.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Nov 5, 2017 13:27:30 GMT
I trust a Vietnamese taxi driver more than I trust the BS written on my defaulted loans. Just like the OP, I hate my monthly logon to the ReBS website to see nothing has happened with each and every loan that defaulted long, long long ago. Just because ReBS were clearly naive (maybe being too kind) in letting many of these companies use their platform to fleece people like me, it doesn't mean we are mugs. Most of us are just guilty or believing what we read and assuming there was some actual due diligence carried out. A tip for free - stop treating people with hard earned money to invest, like they were born yesterday. We aren't the same caliber of people that have lied and cheated to borrow, take a big step back and learn to empathise and understand that you are dealing with two different markets! 99% of the negative PR could have been avoided with a bit of candor. Not simply transferring the BS you seemingly lap up from debtors onto the people that funded this debacle in the first place. Most of us can accept that we were chancing our arm investing in this sector (especially this platform) and have paid the price, what I and I assume others are so angry about is the manner in which it is being dealt with now the SHTF. It doesn't matter now really, you could offer me all of my money back, plus 100% on top for the agro and I would tell you to take a running jump if I had to invest 1 penny of my capital in your platform again - just looking at your website heightens my blood pressure! I understand that you are upset by seeing verbatim quotes from borrowers struggling to make repayments. REBS isn't for you. Try platforms which protect you from such unpleasantness. Also bear in mind REBS are lending at huge interest rates 15-20% - ie an expectation of high levels of default needs to be built in.
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Nov 5, 2017 13:51:05 GMT
I trust a Vietnamese taxi driver more than I trust the BS written on my defaulted loans. Just like the OP, I hate my monthly logon to the ReBS website to see nothing has happened with each and every loan that defaulted long, long long ago. Just because ReBS were clearly naive (maybe being too kind) in letting many of these companies use their platform to fleece people like me, it doesn't mean we are mugs. Most of us are just guilty or believing what we read and assuming there was some actual due diligence carried out. A tip for free - stop treating people with hard earned money to invest, like they were born yesterday. We aren't the same caliber of people that have lied and cheated to borrow, take a big step back and learn to empathise and understand that you are dealing with two different markets! 99% of the negative PR could have been avoided with a bit of candor. Not simply transferring the BS you seemingly lap up from debtors onto the people that funded this debacle in the first place. Most of us can accept that we were chancing our arm investing in this sector (especially this platform) and have paid the price, what I and I assume others are so angry about is the manner in which it is being dealt with now the SHTF. It doesn't matter now really, you could offer me all of my money back, plus 100% on top for the agro and I would tell you to take a running jump if I had to invest 1 penny of my capital in your platform again - just looking at your website heightens my blood pressure! I understand that you are upset by seeing verbatim quotes from borrowers struggling to make repayments. REBS isn't for you. Try platforms which protect you from such unpleasantness. Also bear in mind REBS are lending at huge interest rates 15-20% - ie an expectation of high levels of default needs to be built in. I've never invested with ReBS so just now popped over to their Website for a quick squizz. The heading "Invest In UK Businesses" states, and I quote:- "Average net return of 0%*" !!!!!?  EDIT 6/11/17 - Well waddayaknow, website now says: "Average net return of 9.7%*"
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