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Post by optymystic on Feb 4, 2023 10:05:31 GMT
Charing 16p is what got me. Why am i subsidising other companies energy production in a random business park? Presumably these businesses are paying other electricity generators the going rate for the rest of their electricity needs? I do actually have an idea. The other companies on the business park or whatever it is are probably owned by the same people that own this company, so they are charging below market rates, making a loss, and we are the ones who are subsidising it. As far as I can tell the owners of M********* V***** CHP or whatever it is now call itself are not the same as the owners of the other companies but the very low rates charged do need some explanation and that kind of openness and transparency has been absent from a very early stage in this debacle. The real culprit here is Abundance. Abundance is not to blame for running a failing business, failing to secure prompt payment of subsidies and wiping out our investments. Abundance is to blame for the paucity of information.
I am intrigued by the fact that while our debentures have been converted to shares, the company is still communicating with me via Abundance as if Abundance is still mediating my relationship. Does that mean that M********* V***** CHP doesn't actually hold a shareholders register with my name and contact details on it? How long before M********* V***** CHP is required to invite me to an AGM?
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Feb 4, 2023 11:51:49 GMT
you could go to companies house and look up the administrators report,
I almost spat my Coffee out when I read that over a year down the line, they are still trying to find out what the liability to HMRC is.
Seeing as this is relatively close to me I might go and see who else is on the park and is deserving of energy at 1/2 the going rate
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Post by optymystic on Feb 8, 2023 9:31:26 GMT
Seeing as this is relatively close to me I might go and see who else is on the park and is deserving of energy at 1/2 the going rate I make the going rate for domestic electricity on new contracts about 35 pence i.e about twice the 17.5 p I have been paying up to now. At what point to we judge that M********* V***** is showing its customers a preference, preferring its customers over its shareholders?
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 4,610
Likes: 2,634
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Post by keitha on Feb 8, 2023 15:23:22 GMT
Seeing as this is relatively close to me I might go and see who else is on the park and is deserving of energy at 1/2 the going rate I make the going rate for domestic electricity on new contracts about 35 pence i.e about twice the 17.5 p I have been paying up to now. At what point to we judge that M********* V***** is showing its customers a preference, preferring its customers over its shareholders? but that's partially the point, reading the accounts the business went bust and is still being run at a loss, why should creditors continue to lose out. My guess is if I take a look the businesses are interrelated and M********* V***** is in fact subsidising the other businesses.
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Post by annoyed1986 on Feb 9, 2023 12:36:35 GMT
I make the going rate for domestic electricity on new contracts about 35 pence i.e about twice the 17.5 p I have been paying up to now. At what point to we judge that M********* V***** is showing its customers a preference, preferring its customers over its shareholders? but that's partially the point, reading the accounts the business went bust and is still being run at a loss, why should creditors continue to lose out. My guess is if I take a look the businesses are interrelated and M********* V***** is in fact subsidising the other businesses. That's the only conclusion i can draw from it. For all we know there are non-financial accounted for payments going on between these companies. I must be a very nice and cosy relationship on that business park when one of your neighbours offers to sell you electricity at half the going rate.
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Post by annoyed1986 on Feb 9, 2023 12:37:14 GMT
Charing 16p is what got me. Why am i subsidising other companies energy production in a random business park? Presumably these businesses are paying other electricity generators the going rate for the rest of their electricity needs? I do actually have an idea. The other companies on the business park or whatever it is are probably owned by the same people that own this company, so they are charging below market rates, making a loss, and we are the ones who are subsidising it. As far as I can tell the owners of M********* V***** CHP or whatever it is now call itself are not the same as the owners of the other companies but the very low rates charged do need some explanation and that kind of openness and transparency has been absent from a very early stage in this debacle. The real culprit here is Abundance. Abundance is not to blame for running a failing business, failing to secure prompt payment of subsidies and wiping out our investments. Abundance is to blame for the paucity of information.
I am intrigued by the fact that while our debentures have been converted to shares, the company is still communicating with me via Abundance as if Abundance is still mediating my relationship. Does that mean that M********* V***** CHP doesn't actually hold a shareholders register with my name and contact details on it? How long before M********* V***** CHP is required to invite me to an AGM?
Very good points. I've emailed Abundance but they've not replied.
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Post by optymystic on Jun 7, 2023 13:40:03 GMT
Notice of Termination of Voluntary Arrangement
17th May 2023
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Steerpike
Member of DD Central
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 7, 2023 14:08:14 GMT
6.c – Payments from the Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA)
If the CVA fails, the company would be placed immediately into either Administration or Liquidation. In such a scenario the CVA agreement would fall away, and any funds made available from the insolvency proceedings would be distributed first to secured creditors as agreed by the new deed of priority as part of this proposal. The order would be as follows:
1. Up to the incoming investor’s loan of £100k
2. To you as holders of £4.40 million of secured Debentures under the terms of the original Debenture Deed and security package
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Post by optymystic on Jun 7, 2023 18:44:03 GMT
The equipment is worth bugger all in the second hand market. I anticipate an aggregate asset valuation of zero.
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Post by optymystic on Jun 8, 2023 9:31:50 GMT
6.c – Payments from the Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA)
If the CVA fails, the company would be placed immediately into either Administration or Liquidation. In such a scenario the CVA agreement would fall away, and any funds made available from the insolvency proceedings would be distributed first to secured creditors as agreed by the new deed of priority as part of this proposal. The order would be as follows:
1. Up to the incoming investor’s loan of £100k
2. To you as holders of £4.40 million of secured Debentures under the terms of the original Debenture Deed and security package We have been given to understand that our debentures have been converted into worthless shares (I own one third of a million such), unless that is the agreement under which this happened has been invalidated by breach of the CVA.
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Steerpike
Member of DD Central
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 8, 2023 13:28:05 GMT
The Notice of Termination is dated 10-May-23, so presumably Abundance have known about this for 4 weeks.
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Post by optymystic on Jun 9, 2023 7:21:26 GMT
The Notice of Termination is dated 10-May-23, so presumably Abundance have known about this for 4 weeks. Par for the course - Abundance has an abysmal record on communicating with its investors i.e. its customers over the affairs of M********* V***** CHP. There is no sense of a duty of care or responsibility in any of its actions. Our contractual relationship is with Abundance.
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tw
New Member
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Post by tw on Jun 14, 2023 20:54:41 GMT
Left field Q ...
M**** V*** initially wanted to address the part that Ofgem played, and their failure to meet obligations to pay on time etc. having a catastrophic impact on the business.
Is there any mileage (as I know debenture-holders decided against legal action) in getting some press / investigative journalism interest as I'm sure that MV isn't the only business which was hampered by Ofgem's incompetence? Additionally in reply to Optymystic, the role of Abundance also seems questionable in terms of communication and influencing the decision to convert debentures into worthless shares. It does seem ludicrous that at a time when renewables and energy is at a premium that this has gone belly up!!!
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 14, 2023 22:45:38 GMT
Left field Q ... M**** V*** initially wanted to address the part that Ofgem played, and their failure to meet obligations to pay on time etc. having a catastrophic impact on the business. Is there any mileage (as I know debenture-holders decided against legal action) in getting some press / investigative journalism interest as I'm sure that MV isn't the only business which was hampered by Ofgem's incompetence? Additionally in reply to Optymystic, the role of Abundance also seems questionable in terms of communication and influencing the decision to convert debentures into worthless shares. It does seem ludicrous that at a time when renewables and energy is at a premium that this has gone belly up!!! It should certainly interest an investigative journalist, to examine how a relatively small company could apparently burn £4.4m in their incinerator. Or did they? Indeed, how you could fail to make money at a time of spiking demand for your product has always puzzled me. The conversion to shares, forced on the debenture holders looks more like a job for the fraud squad.
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Post by tex on Jun 15, 2023 8:00:27 GMT
Certainly need to look closer to home before trying to ‘blame’ third parties, I expect a few people ( directors ) have got quite rich before bailing out of a sinking ship🤯
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