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Post by GentlemansFamilyFinances on Jul 19, 2018 10:36:56 GMT
When I see the word M***** I think that it's "we'll pay Tom*****"
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Post by optymystic on Jul 19, 2018 10:51:27 GMT
Checked now with Abundance. They say yesterday's update was to MV Bi****s lenders (which I'm not), not to CHP lenders, who already had the info. Err, not quite! Useful to know that counsel has been appointed Well in some confusion I've just reviewed my Abundance account and it tells me I am a MV CHP investor and that's why I received the email. It would be interesting to know what is going on with MV Biomass which is part of the same stable of companies.
One of the things I discovered in internet searches is that a company called CO2 Sense claims to be an investor in MV CHP. Now this is a formerly government funded sustainability investor, so it is fair to assume it is not playing for peanuts. This means that sitting somewhere within the 897 small time, bit part, investors through Abundance is one mighty big investor. Unless I am mistaken this means we have four parties or constellations of interests which are, MV CHP and its directors, Abundance, the investors in Abundance and among them CO2 Sense.
PS. Is there any method for setting up notification so this forum tells you when additional comments have been submitted?
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liso
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Post by liso on Jul 19, 2018 11:37:19 GMT
MV Biomass also has an interest in this. as perhaps does B&B Fu**s.
It is not clear to me who is the applicant to Ofgem for this scheme. Only MV CHP? Or is it the parent company on behalf of their group?
AIUI, Ofgem refused the application because they assessed the RHI revenues to be significantly higher than 50%, whereas MV CHP claim the RHI revenues would only be 32%. I have been puzzled by the discrepancy in the figures, but if Ofgem made their assessment based on all 3 companies - and to some extent they appear to be dependent on each other to operate - perhaps that would account for the different figures. Just a thought.
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empirica
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Post by empirica on Jul 19, 2018 12:04:06 GMT
PS. Is there any method for setting up notification so this forum tells you when additional comments have been submitted? At the thread level you should see a 'New' against the 'Participated' notice (top right of the screen (and bottom right if you scroll down far enough)) as you have made a post / comment on the thread. Additionally, you can Bookmark a thread _ use the 'Actions' dropdown button _ and when a new post is added you will receive a notification 'bubble' on the blue menu bar (Home, Help, Members, etc, etc). You can even set up an email alert for Bookmarked threads under Profile >> Edit Profile >> Notifications >> Bookmarks. (See www.proboards.com/user-guide/notifications for further guidance on the various options.)
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Post by GentlemansFamilyFinances on Jul 20, 2018 9:33:18 GMT
Well in some confusion I've just reviewed my Abundance account and it tells me I am a MV CHP investor and that's why I received the email. It would be interesting to know what is going on with MV Biomass which is part of the same stable of companies. Interesting what you can find out. There are some big money investors investing in Abundance - it makes small timers like the rest of us seem a little insignificant.
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Post by optymystic on Jul 27, 2018 10:50:11 GMT
MV Biomass isn't currently being traded i.e. it is not present in the Abundance marketplace, which may of course mean simply that no one wants to sell. I find it difficult to determine from the documents I have the relationship between these two companies, Biomass and CHP, which raises the possibility, indicated previously above that Ofgem is treating them as a single entity. If they are in effect a single business, the the total of Abundance funding is £ 6 million and the two groups of investors share a common interest.
As I have indicated above I find the absence of traffic in the press and social media baffling. Why aren't more people complaining about losing their savings? They can't all be hiding ill-gotten gains, some of it must be kosher.
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scc
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Post by scc on Jul 27, 2018 11:10:28 GMT
Abundance halted trading of at least one debenture related to this one so that's probably why you aren't seeing any offers in the marketplace.
As for pitchforked crowds, my guess is that will happen if it becomes clear all other routes have failed and whatever losses become real. Then I would expect to see letter writing to MPs, press coverage etc.
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liso
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Post by liso on Jul 27, 2018 13:20:56 GMT
At the time the debenture was offered and funded, there were 3 companies involved - CHP, Biomass, and Biofuels. The offer document describes Biofuels as a 'key partner', both in terms of providing fuel for the boilers and also as a purchaser of heat. Biofuels was to seek to be registered as an eligible fuel supplier for the RHI scheme.
But a quick search on Companies House website shows Biofuels was dissolved in the autumn of 2017 (about a year after MV CHP was funded), leaving a charge outstanding in favour of Abundance.
So what happened? Was Biofuels refused registration as an eligible supplier? If so, the basis for the whole scheme would then have been in trouble.
And if not, why did the parent company dissolve their 'key partner'?
And what did Abundance know?
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beh
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Post by beh on Jul 27, 2018 20:17:15 GMT
Had spotted the same a few weeks ago but on closer inspection it appears there's another company with a shared director and essentially the same charge just with a slightly different spelling, "BNB" rather than "B&B". Probably a fairly innocent explanation. I feel Abundance have been reasonably forthcoming so if something was amiss they would have said.
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Post by optymystic on Aug 7, 2018 7:23:47 GMT
OK, so we now have a new update from Abundance and MV accompanied by an insistence that we do not share it, which means in practice we can't discuss it without ignoring the advice from Abundance and the MV directors. Returning to an earlier theme (above) I am very surprised that in an age of twitter etc. Abundance can have been so successful in damping down active discussion as if what is going on is some kind of secret which could compromise national security rather than an investment failure which could make life extremely difficult for Abundance if the Ofgem decision is not revised or overturned. If MV investors are wiped out which is far from impossible, Abundance investments will not look anything like as attractive. Obviously the best solution for Abundance is one in which Abundance MV investors get most of their money back, but at the same time Abundance has an interest in discouraging open, active discussion.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Aug 7, 2018 8:52:38 GMT
Frankly, I am unconvinced by the arguments regarding prejudice.
Para 5. of the 27-Jul-18 letter from Ofgem is clear, and the directors understand this from their update in 1. para 6.
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Post by optymystic on Aug 7, 2018 9:47:16 GMT
Frankly, I am unconvinced by the arguments regarding prejudice. Para 5. of the 27-Jul-18 letter from Ofgem is clear, and the directors understand this from their update in 1. para 6. Does that Para. 5. reconcile to the information and Pie Chart published by MV?
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Aug 7, 2018 9:49:32 GMT
Frankly, I am unconvinced by the arguments regarding prejudice. Para 5. of the 27-Jul-18 letter from Ofgem is clear, and the directors understand this from their update in 1. para 6. Does that Para. 5. reconcile to the information and Pie Chart published by MV? I tried and failed to work that out!
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Post by johnny on Aug 7, 2018 16:58:31 GMT
Nothing in the update as far as I was concerned, hot air with a similar value to the hot air in question. Without being too negative the old saying comes to mind, this bond as two hopes, no hope and Bob Hope.
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beh
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Post by beh on Aug 9, 2018 18:48:51 GMT
Not sure how Abundance or MV CHP could handle this any better than they have? It's dragging on a bit but their only option is to follow the process for now. Still just wait and see what happens next.
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