bg
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Post by bg on Nov 23, 2017 7:51:17 GMT
I'd only recommend a handful of the perhaps 20 or so loans they email me each week. FS have some very low LTV loans with good rates but I have to admit I cherry pick these and stay away from most of their offerings. I'd recommend reading the loan summaries closely because they often state the loan is secured by a first legal charge then go on to say this particular tranche ranks behind other tranches. This means you effectively have a second or third charge security which in the case of a default is much more likely to suffer total capital loss (especially with over-optimistic valuations which seems to be rife on a lot of p2p platforms). The title didn’t ask what they should be recommended for! I am sure I could add a few suggestions but I would no doubt be banned once again. To the above I would also add to be sceptical of renewals. This bunch have “previous” in not doing the right checks etc and often these renewals pop up without comment or observation other than “this is a renewal....paid the interest......” but no observation as to how things are going otherwise. Given the well-known valuation issues, this trappist approach to communication makes renewals a no-no for me. I like renewals where interest has been paid. Indicates to me that the valuation is good (ie the borrower is better off keeping the asset than simply defaulting).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2017 8:00:28 GMT
Lending to FS has lost me a fair bit of money, certainly more than all other portals even FC.
I believe they need to modify their loan control process significantly (they may have already done this or not, they are not great communicators).
As a result I am reducing my loans on property on FS and waiting, with wringing hands, to see how they resolve my existing loans.
I would only recommend FS at the moment to friends or family on non property loans.
Hopefully this will change one day.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Nov 23, 2017 10:26:53 GMT
Lending to FS has lost me a fair bit of money, certainly more than all other portals even FC. Sorry to hear that. Which loans and how much out of curiosity?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2017 10:31:25 GMT
Which loans, property mainly, they did lose a bit on smaller stuff one year but won it all back the next.
Lost? 3% of my P2P capital.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Nov 23, 2017 11:09:43 GMT
IMO, lending on FS is like truffle-hunting in a mine-field. Very occasionally (perhaps 1 in 20) there are well-secured loans to be had at above-market rates, but the chance of getting maimed is high unless you're exceptionally cautious. I certainly would never recommend FS to anyone who wasn't fully aware of the high risks they'd be taking.
30% of my current holdings are massively overdue locked-in loans (300 / 400 / 500 / 600 days ...), bought before I understood just how poor FS's due diligence is. I sometimes reckon they'd lend against my 98 year-old granny at 70% LTV if I could find a dodgy RICS valuer who'd claim she's worth a £million. And the only thing worse than FS's DD is their management of delinquent borrowers. I'm certain I will incur significant capital losses on a number of these old loans; one, the NI wind turbine, already resulted in a 70% capital write-off (with zero interest) after nearly 20 months. Others include one of the powerboats, some of the linked development plots in NI and the astonishing Whitehaven scheme (where I believe FS have no option but to cover ultimate losses, given they've taken no action against the borrower for fraud). All I can do is patiently hope that some eventually will be recovered in full, offsetting inevitable losses on others.
The rest of my holdings were bought since the penny dropped, taking an approach that security must be bullet-proof since I now trust nothing in the FS loan details (unless independently verifiable). That means ignoring all of the development loans (although I'm in a couple of 1st-charge purchase loans where subsequent lower-ranking development loans provide ample buffer) and pretty much everything beyond (rare) low-LTV loans on good quality residential property. I don't bother with the little pawn loans as, frankly, I CBA to scrap over £25 / £50 parts. Instead I take larger stakes in a very small list of loans I'm confident should eventually return capital in full even if FS went to the wall.
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Nov 23, 2017 11:44:34 GMT
IMO, lending on FS is like truffle-hunting in a mine-field. Very occasionally (perhaps 1 in 20) there are well-secured loans to be had at above-market rates, but the chance of getting maimed is high unless you're exceptionally cautious. I certainly would never recommend FS to anyone who wasn't fully aware of the high risks they'd be taking. 30% of my current holdings are massively overdue locked-in loans (300 / 400 / 500 / 600 days ...), bought before I understood just how poor FS's due diligence is. I sometimes reckon they'd lend against my 98 year-old granny at 70% LTV if I could find a dodgy RICS valuer who'd claim she's worth a £million. And the only thing worse than FS's DD is their management of delinquent borrowers. I'm certain I will incur significant capital losses on a number of these old loans; one, the NI wind turbine, already resulted in a 70% capital write-off (with zero interest) after nearly 20 months. Others include one of the powerboats, some of the linked development plots in NI and the astonishing Whitehaven scheme (where I believe FS have no option but to cover ultimate losses, given they've taken no action against the borrower for fraud). All I can do is patiently hope that some eventually will be recovered in full, offsetting inevitable losses on others. The rest of my holdings were bought since the penny dropped, taking an approach that security must be bullet-proof since I now trust nothing in the FS loan details (unless independently verifiable). That means ignoring all of the development loans (although I'm in a couple of 1st-charge purchase loans where subsequent lower-ranking development loans provide ample buffer) and pretty much everything beyond (rare) low-LTV loans on good quality residential property. I don't bother with the little pawn loans as, frankly, I CBA to scrap over £25 / £50 parts. Instead I take larger stakes in a very small list of loans I'm confident should eventually return capital in full even if FS went to the wall. Agree with everything in this post and had similar experience
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Nov 23, 2017 12:11:33 GMT
IMO, lending on FS is like truffle-hunting in a mine-field. Very occasionally (perhaps 1 in 20) there are well-secured loans to be had at above-market rates, but the chance of getting maimed is high unless you're exceptionally cautious. I certainly would never recommend FS to anyone who wasn't fully aware of the high risks they'd be taking. 30% of my current holdings are massively overdue locked-in loans (300 / 400 / 500 / 600 days ...), bought before I understood just how poor FS's due diligence is. I sometimes reckon they'd lend against my 98 year-old granny at 70% LTV if I could find a dodgy RICS valuer who'd claim she's worth a £million. And the only thing worse than FS's DD is their management of delinquent borrowers. I'm certain I will incur significant capital losses on a number of these old loans; one, the NI wind turbine, already resulted in a 70% capital write-off (with zero interest) after nearly 20 months. Others include one of the powerboats, some of the linked development plots in NI and the astonishing Whitehaven scheme (where I believe FS have no option but to cover ultimate losses, given they've taken no action against the borrower for fraud). All I can do is patiently hope that some eventually will be recovered in full, offsetting inevitable losses on others. The rest of my holdings were bought since the penny dropped, taking an approach that security must be bullet-proof since I now trust nothing in the FS loan details (unless independently verifiable). That means ignoring all of the development loans (although I'm in a couple of 1st-charge purchase loans where subsequent lower-ranking development loans provide ample buffer) and pretty much everything beyond (rare) low-LTV loans on good quality residential property. I don't bother with the little pawn loans as, frankly, I CBA to scrap over £25 / £50 parts. Instead I take larger stakes in a very small list of loans I'm confident should eventually return capital in full even if FS went to the wall. That would sum up several P2P sites!
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Post by df on Nov 23, 2017 17:33:34 GMT
IMO, lending on FS is like truffle-hunting in a mine-field. Very occasionally (perhaps 1 in 20) there are well-secured loans to be had at above-market rates, but the chance of getting maimed is high unless you're exceptionally cautious. I certainly would never recommend FS to anyone who wasn't fully aware of the high risks they'd be taking. 30% of my current holdings are massively overdue locked-in loans (300 / 400 / 500 / 600 days ...), bought before I understood just how poor FS's due diligence is. I sometimes reckon they'd lend against my 98 year-old granny at 70% LTV if I could find a dodgy RICS valuer who'd claim she's worth a £million. And the only thing worse than FS's DD is their management of delinquent borrowers. I'm certain I will incur significant capital losses on a number of these old loans; one, the NI wind turbine, already resulted in a 70% capital write-off (with zero interest) after nearly 20 months. Others include one of the powerboats, some of the linked development plots in NI and the astonishing Whitehaven scheme (where I believe FS have no option but to cover ultimate losses, given they've taken no action against the borrower for fraud). All I can do is patiently hope that some eventually will be recovered in full, offsetting inevitable losses on others. The rest of my holdings were bought since the penny dropped, taking an approach that security must be bullet-proof since I now trust nothing in the FS loan details (unless independently verifiable). That means ignoring all of the development loans (although I'm in a couple of 1st-charge purchase loans where subsequent lower-ranking development loans provide ample buffer) and pretty much everything beyond (rare) low-LTV loans on good quality residential property. I don't bother with the little pawn loans as, frankly, I CBA to scrap over £25 / £50 parts. Instead I take larger stakes in a very small list of loans I'm confident should eventually return capital in full even if FS went to the wall. Don't even need to find dodgy valuer or bother about pretend LTV if the borrower is a "high profile individual who had signed heads of terms to appear as an ambassador for a major brand". 15% to lenders. Assets: TOTAL: £0.00, LOAN-TO-VALUE: na %. I've never taken part in this, but it looks like it is getting repaid and renewed for over a year now.
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7d7
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Post by 7d7 on Nov 24, 2017 11:58:15 GMT
It depends taking into account one's attitude to risk. If they can take it on the chin, some loans especially non-property are worth endorsing. If not, forget it.
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peteuk
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Post by peteuk on Nov 24, 2017 16:18:23 GMT
Would i recommend FS no,no no . They have treated me as an investor with contempt, i have only one solid loss at the moment ,that being NI wind , but i expect about four more. This i could take on the chin no problem, What i disagree with is the constant updates that say nothing but promise everything,that now go on for years they have been lucky that they started one of the first ifisa's and that there secondry market was very handy for people whopay 40% tax, but the chickens are slowly coming home to roost , a lot of people new to PtoP forget that say 12%on Collateral is the same as 13% on FS . The risk on most platforms is the investment. But on FS it is interest +investment
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Post by stevel on Nov 24, 2017 17:24:37 GMT
IMO, lending on FS is like truffle-hunting in a mine-field. Very occasionally (perhaps 1 in 20) there are well-secured loans to be had at above-market rates, but the chance of getting maimed is high unless you're exceptionally cautious. I certainly would never recommend FS to anyone who wasn't fully aware of the high risks they'd be taking. 30% of my current holdings are massively overdue locked-in loans (300 / 400 / 500 / 600 days ...), bought before I understood just how poor FS's due diligence is. I sometimes reckon they'd lend against my 98 year-old granny at 70% LTV if I could find a dodgy RICS valuer who'd claim she's worth a £million. And the only thing worse than FS's DD is their management of delinquent borrowers. I'm certain I will incur significant capital losses on a number of these old loans; one, the NI wind turbine, already resulted in a 70% capital write-off (with zero interest) after nearly 20 months. Others include one of the powerboats, some of the linked development plots in NI and the astonishing Whitehaven scheme (where I believe FS have no option but to cover ultimate losses, given they've taken no action against the borrower for fraud). All I can do is patiently hope that some eventually will be recovered in full, offsetting inevitable losses on others. The rest of my holdings were bought since the penny dropped, taking an approach that security must be bullet-proof since I now trust nothing in the FS loan details (unless independently verifiable). That means ignoring all of the development loans (although I'm in a couple of 1st-charge purchase loans where subsequent lower-ranking development loans provide ample buffer) and pretty much everything beyond (rare) low-LTV loans on good quality residential property. I don't bother with the little pawn loans as, frankly, I CBA to scrap over £25 / £50 parts. Instead I take larger stakes in a very small list of loans I'm confident should eventually return capital in full even if FS went to the wall. Same for me. I started off trustingly and got caught in a several dodgy loans including Whitehaven. Still use them but now very careful, stick mainly to pawn and try to sell before term
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hector
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Post by hector on Nov 24, 2017 19:43:28 GMT
Mods. I think this thread is in the wrong section? Should be in Chat/Jokes
Rgds
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Post by df on Nov 24, 2017 20:51:15 GMT
Would i recommend FS no,no no . They have treated me as an investor with contempt, i have only one solid loss at the moment ,that being NI wind , but i expect about four more. This i could take on the chin no problem, What i disagree with is the constant updates that say nothing but promise everything,that now go on for years they have been lucky that they started one of the first ifisa's and that there secondry market was very handy for people whopay 40% tax, but the chickens are slowly coming home to roost , a lot of people new to PtoP forget that say 12%on Collateral is the same as 13% on FS . The risk on most platforms is the investment. But on FS it is interest +investment One shouldn't expect any detailed updates from FC, it is pawn platform. In bling loan world, you wouldn't update on how piece of metal or precious stone or Rolex watch is developing and progressing towards their completion or refinancing.
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keith
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Post by keith on Nov 24, 2017 21:23:34 GMT
Fair enough. No more than one would buy real estate from a pawnbroker or jewellery from an estate agent.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Nov 26, 2017 19:36:53 GMT
What i disagree with is the constant updates that say nothing but promise everything,that now go on for years One shouldn't expect any detailed updates from FC, it is pawn platform. In bling loan world, you wouldn't update on how piece of metal or precious stone or Rolex watch is developing and progressing towards their completion or refinancing. I have a significant FS investment, but it does require significant oversight and selectivity as, IMHO, there's quite a range of risk involved. As a result of learning this the hard way, I have a number of parts of loans that are rather overdue and where recovery of my investment is uncertain. I'm still ahead at the moment, but I really can't predict where I'll be when all the dust settles. I feel FS's updates are inadequate. When a loan is made, ISTM that it's extremely rare to see an update on that loan/tranche until around its maturity time. What I'd like to know is what progress the borrowers are making toward their exit plans. If the plan includes obtaining PP, have they actually put in an application? What has been the reaction? If the plan is a refinance, are they getting anywhere? If the plan is to sell, where can I see it listed? And is there any interest at that price? I don't get the feeling that FS have much contact with borrowers during a loan's term, and that's why there are no updates. (The exception is development loans where the borrower comes back to FS asking for more funds.) As a result, if problems develop, we don't find out about it as it happens, only after it has happened. Perhaps it's not important, as investors might not do anything differently if there were comprehensive updates. I think the lack of updates makes investors tend towards playing 'pass the parcel', and I don't like the idea that the best way to invest at FS seems to be to find someone to relieve you of your old loan parts.
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