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Post by nesako on Nov 28, 2017 9:55:15 GMT
This is taken from the latest GS update (https://www.growthstreet.co.uk/blog/news/borrower-acquisition-update):
Anyone would like to speculate how it will change? Are we finally getting rid of the constant rate dropping system? No more Priority / Market rate split? let's wait and see...
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 28, 2017 9:57:54 GMT
This is taken from the latest GS update (https://www.growthstreet.co.uk/blog/news/borrower-acquisition-update): Anyone would like to speculate how it will change? Are we finally getting rid of the constant rate dropping system? No more Priority / Market rate split? let's wait and see... beat me to it by seconds! I speculate that there will indeed be more options over the rate at which lenders want to lend.
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Post by nesako on Nov 28, 2017 10:19:15 GMT
I do not believe that adding another option would help it... people on the higher above market rate would never get matched, so soon everyone would be back to fast matching priority. To be honest, I would rather there was a single, fixed, no longer dropping rate. Though it should above AC 30DAA account given there will still be some lag in matching.
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savernake
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Post by savernake on Nov 28, 2017 10:34:20 GMT
I just wish they'd hurry up and get these changes implemented. For months now all we've been given are vague promises of future improvements. The recent news release was typically vague, giving no details of the changes to the product. Please don't let it be another anti-climax like their last 'improvement' which just turned out to be an automated email informing us that the rates have dropped again.
This product needs a major redesign, not minor tweaks. Constantly dropping rates with no visible mechanism for them EVER to rise again is not an attractive proposition for lenders. Until GS address this very fundamental problem, everything else they do is simply papering over the cracks.
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Nov 28, 2017 11:56:07 GMT
I asked on LC whether they were intending to do something to allow rates to increase and got the response:
"We will be implementing a significant change to the lender product in December to combat the declining rates."
and told that they'll be making further announcements in the next couple of weeks.
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Post by jackpease on Nov 28, 2017 12:12:03 GMT
>something to allow rates to increase What - in a free market - can a platform do to increase rates (beyond chasing poor quality loans)? Is it not just a fact of life that any platform offering good rates will get swamped and unworkable? I'm not sure there's a magic button to press! Jack P
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Nov 28, 2017 18:00:21 GMT
>something to allow rates to increase What - in a free market - can a platform do to increase rates (beyond chasing poor quality loans)? Is it not just a fact of life that any platform offering good rates will get swamped and unworkable? I'm not sure there's a magic button to press! Jack P Apologies if I'm missing something in your comment, but the issue on Growth Street isn't just that rates have decreased due to lender oversupply, it's that the mechanics of the investment product on Growth Street mean that once the interest has reduced (for whatever reason), there is no way for it to increase again. On most platforms rates might decrease because of an increased investor demand, but should demand subside the interest rates might subsequently increase. This is presumably the "free market" model you mention, but that isn't what we have here. Because of the "ratchet" like system on Growth Street, once rates go down, they're locked to the new level and below. I'm not saying that Growth street should artificially inflate interest rates, but they should have a mechanism that allows the possibility for rates to increase, rather than the current system that forces rates down at an ever increasing rate.
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Post by jackpease on Nov 29, 2017 6:12:06 GMT
>downward only ratchet mechanism I hadn't twigged that it is a downward only model - only that any p2p platform that bursts onto the scene with a good rate offer is going to be swamped leaving only a choice of rationing (loosely the market rate) or rate cuts (loosely the priority rate). I think the 'lowest common denominator' is rates you see on Ratesetter/Assetz 30 day etc etc - and Growth Street is pretty well at that level and not about to rise anytime soon. Indeed has *any* p2p platform raised rates? I think you have to go to a new platform for raised rates - as loads of us did by joining GS so pushing the rates down.
Jack P
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Nov 29, 2017 12:21:43 GMT
>downward only ratchet mechanism I hadn't twigged that it is a downward only model - only that any p2p platform that bursts onto the scene with a good rate offer is going to be swamped leaving only a choice of rationing (loosely the market rate) or rate cuts (loosely the priority rate). I think the 'lowest common denominator' is rates you see on Ratesetter/Assetz 30 day etc etc - and Growth Street is pretty well at that level and not about to rise anytime soon. Indeed has *any* p2p platform raised rates? I think you have to go to a new platform for raised rates - as loads of us did by joining GS so pushing the rates down. Jack P There is a fundamental difference here between models whereby the rates are free to move depending on demand (ratesetter), fixed at one value (AC) and driven downwards at an ever faster rate, with no possibility of a rise. The fact that demand is so much higher than supply on GS may well mean that rates would continue to go down, but in this scenario you would expect the speed with which the rates fall to be decreasing as more lenders pull out. That isn't happening here - the rates are falling faster and faster as documented on another thread. This appears to be down to a fundamental problem with the way the current rate is calculated. Again, I'm not saying that GS should necessarily intervene to artificially prop up interest rates, but it seems bizarre that you have this model that means rates are dropping every two weeks or so on average and that there is mechanically no way rates could ever rise. Finally, I'd just point out that the comparison to the Ratesetter rolling market seems very apt - they're fairly comparable products. Had this model been applied to Ratesetter then since June 2016 we'd be looking at rates of below ~2.1%. This isn't what's happened, and the rolling rate is currently above 4%. That's a pretty clear example of rates increasing in this part of the P2P market.
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Nov 29, 2017 12:29:00 GMT
There is a fundamental difference here between models whereby the rates are free to move depending on demand (ratesetter), fixed at one value (AC) and driven downwards at an ever faster rate, with no possibility of a rise. The fact that demand is so much higher than supply on GS may well mean that rates would continue to go down, but in this scenario you would expect the speed with which the rates fall to be decreasing as more lenders pull out. That isn't happening here - the rates are falling faster and faster as documented on another thread. This appears to be down to a fundamental problem with the way the current rate is calculated. Again, I'm not saying that GS should necessarily intervene to artificially prop up interest rates, but it seems bizarre that you have this model that means rates are dropping every two weeks or so on average and that there is mechanically no way rates could ever rise. Finally, I'd just point out that the comparison to the Ratesetter rolling market seems very apt - they're fairly comparable products. Had this model been applied to Ratesetter then since June 2016 we'd be looking at rates of below ~2.1%. This isn't what's happened, and the rolling rate is currently above 4%. That's a pretty clear example of rates increasing in this part of the P2P market. Surely this is wrong as it is also based on supply and demand as with Ratesetter. If borrower demand is greater than lender supply on GS then rates would increase. I don't use GS but it doesn't sound like a broken model but merely a lack of borrowers?
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Nov 29, 2017 12:32:18 GMT
My XIRR for GS is 5.33% over the last 8 months, I am content with 5% for 30 day money.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 29, 2017 13:04:11 GMT
My XIRR for GS is 5.33% over the last 8 months, I am content with 5% for 30 day money. just about keeps pace with inflation after (higher rate) tax
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 29, 2017 13:07:59 GMT
I think there is another model - Lending Works - where the platform can increase the market rate, rather than the lender. They adjust (up or down) weekly. PErhaps that is how GS was/is intending to adjust once there is more balance between lenders/borrowers in the market?
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Post by jackpease on Nov 29, 2017 13:09:49 GMT
>>>as more lenders pull out I may have missed something - but do we know this? This forum often can get quite noisy with people saying 'i'm out' meanwhile people not on this forum are piling in. Like Steerpike I still think the rate is okay - it's less than it was - but it's okay - so suspect demand is still outstripping supply. Still unclear whether there is an inherent mechanism with the GS model that prevents rates going up? Jack P
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 29, 2017 13:16:14 GMT
Priority rate abolished!
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