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Post by skint4achange on Jan 11, 2018 15:17:05 GMT
It certainly has been volatile today, but I have made some rather large gains too.
Long may it continue!
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Jan 11, 2018 17:27:01 GMT
As long as people appreciate that Bitcoin etc is the modern equivalent of the South Sea Company of 1711, all will be well. That bubble peaked after nine years. An opinion again, as we are all entitled to. If it all crashes and burns around my feet, no problem, I am not that exposed.
Hi Skint. An opinion that the bubble will burst at some time, yes. But an opinion that the value of Bitcoin et al is a bubble? More of a fact I think. What is the asset that underpins the value? Money is effectively debt, and debt is an asset (which we all know well). Bitcoins are a sort of commodity which is mined and is scare, but has no practical use. Is the value not simply based on a belief that the demand for a useless but scarce commodity will be greater than the supply? A bubble puffed up by confidence? Surely people are now buying it only because they believe that its value will increase against real currencies, supported by banks? Ride the wave and try to avoid wipe out.
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 11, 2018 18:12:31 GMT
An opinion again, as we are all entitled to. If it all crashes and burns around my feet, no problem, I am not that exposed.
Hi Skint. An opinion that the bubble will burst at some time, yes. But an opinion that the value of Bitcoin et al is a bubble? More of a fact I think. What is the asset that underpins the value? Money is effectively debt, and debt is an asset (which we all know well). Bitcoins are a sort of commodity which is mined and is scare, but has no practical use. Is the value not simply based on a belief that the demand for a useless but scarce commodity will be greater than the supply? A bubble puffed up by confidence? Surely people are now buying it only because they believe that its value will increase against real currencies, supported by banks? Ride the wave and try to avoid wipe out.
How is it a fact? Apart from saying it is a fact, you need to provide proof to back it up. These Crypto currencies will go up and down for a long time before they find a medium.
There is no fact about Crypto, anymore than there is fact about FIAT currency? What underpins the value of FIAT? Nothing apart from a government saying that they "Promise" to pay etc etc. And as we all know, no government has ever lied.
You are obviously very misinformed (Or totally uninformed) about the possible uses of Crypto currency (I say Crypto currency because you seem to be fixated with Bitcoin, which makes up just a small section of Crypto currency).
Some Crypto currencies cannot be mined and as such is only a scarce as the blockchain makes it.
People may be buying it (Assuming you are referring to Bitcoin again?) in the belief that it will rise in value and it probably will, and drop, and rise, and drop and rise. A bit like the stock market. Perhaps that is a bubble too? Of course it is, but it has been around for a fair while.
As for "Real" currencies, supported by banks, really? People sure have short memories of how banks caused a major global meltdown and the only reason lots of them survived was because governments issued money which didn't exist (Perhaps QE could be another form of Crypto currency?? ). The fact that currencies are no longer supported by a gold standard and are only supported by a "I Promise to......" etc. means that they really are fairly worthless too (In real terms).
I will repeat one thing, banks are spending billions of (Worthless) FIAT currency to try to integrate this into their own systems.
Are you aware that Crypto currencies are not only used for trading on exchanges for capital gain? No? Look further than the greed of the few and you may see the benefit to the masses (A bit like financial institutions are doing right now).
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 11, 2018 18:45:44 GMT
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Post by beeje13 on Jan 11, 2018 18:50:53 GMT
My opinion :
Cryptocurrency and blockchain are 2 separate things entirely.
I think blockchain and similar technology are going to be key for financial systems in the future.
I don't think that we will ever be going to the supermarket to pay in bitcoins/XRP/whatever.
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 11, 2018 19:05:09 GMT
My opinion : Cryptocurrency and blockchain are 2 separate things entirely. I think blockchain and similar technology are going to be key for financial systems in the future. I don't think that we will ever be going to the supermarket to pay in bitcoins/XRP/whatever.Why? When you go into a shop and pay using Visa, Applepay, MasterCard, what are you actually trading? Nothing apart from an electronic transfer of equity from one source to another. Exactly the same as Crypto currencies do.
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Post by beeje13 on Jan 11, 2018 19:20:29 GMT
My opinion : Cryptocurrency and blockchain are 2 separate things entirely. I think blockchain and similar technology are going to be key for financial systems in the future. I don't think that we will ever be going to the supermarket to pay in bitcoins/XRP/whatever.Why? When you go into a shop and pay using Visa, Applepay, MasterCard, what are you actually trading? Nothing apart from an electronic transfer of equity from one source to another. Exactly the same as Crypto currencies do.
You will be spending £s on a system using blockchain and digital tokens.
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 11, 2018 19:29:29 GMT
Why? When you go into a shop and pay using Visa, Applepay, MasterCard, what are you actually trading? Nothing apart from an electronic transfer of equity from one source to another. Exactly the same as Crypto currencies do.
You will be spending £s on a system using blockchain and digital tokens. Yes, exchanging one worthless currency for another one.
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 11, 2018 19:51:12 GMT
P.s. Most Crypto currencies use a blockchain
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gibmike
Member of DD Central
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
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Post by gibmike on Jan 11, 2018 20:32:39 GMT
This thread has certainly been busy today! skint4achange, I am going to go into hidinig before I get burnt at the stake for witchcraft :-)
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 11, 2018 20:41:01 GMT
This thread has certainly been busy today! skint4achange , I am going to go into hidinig before I get burnt at the stake for witchcraft :-) Think I might join you!!
I think some people might misunderstand what I am saying. I am not saying that I think everyone should invest in this, I am not even saying that I am SURE that it will succeed, I am just saying that it is different and if you really look at what the system was put in place for it makes sense.
Of course people are going to try to get rich from it, but that's why we are all members of this forum. If you are not here to make money, I expect to see a piece in the Times about how you gave all your money to Battersea dogs home upon your demise!
Maybe I am just clouded, but the more I look into this, the more I can see what the possible uses are and how it will revolutionise the everyday things we do. If people do not wish to invest, that's fine. I don't blame them, it's high risk, but I would rather people let me become a lemming rather than tell me I am one (By the way, Lemmings do not apparently commit suicide according to QI! )
I am happy for people to invest in AC, FS, RS, LY (Ha ha ha!) and anything else they want to, I don't go round telling them that they are mental and have no idea what they are talking about (Apart from LY lenders of course!).
Right, where did I put that live chicken, upside down cross and black cloak!! Later gibmike
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blender
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Post by blender on Jan 11, 2018 23:14:18 GMT
Skint, please do not take people's comments too personally or as some kind of threat. It's just a discussion and no-one is going to chop your virtual body into quarters. But the way to answer mild challenges is not to repeat the same stuff and pick holes in the questions. You are welcome to buy 'crypto currencies' and to promote them to others on this forum. I don't like to use the term 'crypto currencies' because it makes them sound like money. Money is supported by debt, equities are supported by business assets. Sure, markets can inflate the value through speculation. But the value of 'crypto currencies' seems to be based almost wholly on speculation. True I do not know much about them, so please say why that is not the case and I will have learned something.
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 11, 2018 23:51:52 GMT
blender, I do not take people's comments personally nor do I see them as an attack. This is part of the reason why I hate these forums so much, it is very difficult to get across the tone with which you are trying to say something.
Please be assured that each of my comments are made in the spirit of a conversation and with no malice intended.
Now, back to business! I am not trying to convince people to invest, nor am I trying to educate the masses. I still do not understand enough about Crypto currencies to claim that it will be a success with absolute certainty. What I am trying to get across is that the concept is sound and that in all reality there is no more flaws in this currency than any other currency in the world. At one point in history we used to trade in goats and chickens. There was nothing wrong with that, but it became very difficult to get a goat down a telephone line! Bottom line is that times change, but we don't like change. I have no problem trying something new, and maybe being proven wrong. But just maybe......................
Anyway, as I said, I do not know enough about this technology, but here is a man who knows more about it than most people:
cryptocurrencyfacts.com/what-is-a-blockchain/
The bottom video is very informative from an investors point of view.
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Jan 12, 2018 8:43:36 GMT
Many thanks for your reply, Skint. My goats say that you are right and that I should learn more about blockchain.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 9:14:39 GMT
My view is; if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. So, Cryptocurrencies are currencies. Blockchain; I just did a MOOC in it, is very interesting technology. If we look at assets, I see gold, art and property as the core elements of a tangible investment. Of these only property is actually limited by there being only one planet, gold has no inherent value while today's Van Gogh is tomorrow's firewood if it gets cold enough and in my mind is actually fraud. I think I lump cryptocurrenices in with gold and art, inherently worthless but exchangeable between people who like that sort of thing. However cryptocurrencies have a final flaw, while there may be a limited number of each currency that will be produced there is an infinite number of potential cryptocurrencies. So in taking your bet, you have to find a portal that will still be there when you want to cash up, you have to choose an attractive and well publicised currency, you have to assume the portals systems are not hackable (evidence of theft, the key element of blockchain, seems to have failed in recent thefts (details, mr google is your friend here)), that the country where the majority of players are interested don't ban it, and finally you have to get your timing right. I'm old enough to have sat through three of these bubbles (no, not the tulip one :-) ) and the trick to each was to spot the top and get out early on the way down. Having failed to do this twice I'll sit this one out in the same way I have yet to bet on the ponies, buy a lottery ticket or go to bingo. Yes, I really am that dull. Good luck to all, timing will be the key to making money and clearly many of the writers here understand that.
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