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Post by dan1 on Jan 12, 2018 9:53:20 GMT
I've been aware of this discussion but had my bitcoin/crypto currency filter on up until last night when I read MMM's take on it, see here if you're interested. I like his face-punch sense, and a little more so given his s/w background. Personally, I've never been tempted to invest in gold, fx or crytos. Why? Well, I don't see them as productive but rather at best a store of value or at worst speculative. It'll be interesting to see where the technology takes us but if it's not controlled by big corporates/governments (aka neo-liberalism) then I'll have got it horribly wrong.
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 12, 2018 10:06:49 GMT
Many thanks for your reply, Skint. My goats say that you are right and that I should learn more about blockchain. Now you are a believer, I will give you the password to our secret underworld love cave................................................in Basildon!!
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 12, 2018 10:58:17 GMT
I've been aware of this discussion but had my bitcoin/crypto currency filter on up until last night when I read MMM's take on it, see here if you're interested. I like his face-punch sense, and a little more so given his s/w background. Personally, I've never been tempted to invest in gold, fx or crytos. Why? Well, I don't see them as productive but rather at best a store of value or at worst speculative. It'll be interesting to see where the technology takes us but if it's not controlled by big corporates/governments (aka neo-liberalism) then I'll have got it horribly wrong. My passion when I speak of the blockchain is not because I see massive profits rolling in. I know that most of the currencies will evaporate and disappear up their own............ But, I like the technology and can see that even though Bicoin, Bitcash, Bitbob, Slobberdog etc. will disappear sooner or later, I think that the technology will be improved upon and financial institutions will employ it throughout the world. Even just understanding the system (Not to a degree level or anything!) will be an advantage in the long run. This is a bit like Pandora's box. It is out there now and that can never be undone.
I think using the analogy of the poor African woman out in the middle of nowhere using a mobile to make a transaction is a bit far fetched though! If she has a mobile and can get internet she can't be that far from civilisation!! I live in the South of England and I struggle to get a phone signal on O2 half the bloody time!
I do think it may change how the financial world are charged for transactions and the time it takes for them to do the transaction. They may end up creating their own token for use that cannot be traded, a bit like Kodak have just announced. However, if they do, I dare say that the general public will not see any benefit and the reduced cost will just go to make up extra profits for the shareholders.
I also think that the frenzy surrounding the word "Crypto" will eventually calm down (I hope). As was seen yesterday when Kodak announced their plans to launch a Kodak coin their shares rocketed as people speculated about what was going to happen! For god's sake, they hadn't even actually done anything and they gained over 200% on their shares!
Maybe 2 or 3 "Currencies" will survive and a lot of the volatility surrounding them will just become normal trading fluctuations.
All I am trying to do is pick the correct coin that may go on to make a big splash in this new technology. This may not be in the "Spirit" of what the technology was created for, but if I can make a few pound while the going is good then why not?
I may on the other hand end up donating some of my funds to someone else. That is the risk I have taken and it is a risk I accept.
Most of the coins that I have are (If any of you remember my post so long ago!!) high volume, low value. As an example, I have 6000 of one type of coin (Dogecoin) which cost me $22. If Dogecoin disappeared tomorrow I would probably shrug my shoulders and just accept it. If however the Dogecoin hits $500 per coin (Which we all know that some coins have done this in months!) and I have 6000, I would probably cash them in and walk away happy from the world of Crypto investment. However, I still think I would be interested in investing in companies that are looking to employ the technology.
As @bobo said, there are a lot of currencies out there ( Some exchanges have over 1300 on their system! ) and you have to choose wisely (Or blindly in most cases). Exchanges too have problems (As Bojo said below) as they can be hacked but with a little research you can find out who has been hacked and who has not. But, if at the end of the day you do not trust the exchanges, you can use your own storage device. If you still don't even trust your own IT equipment you can use paper wallets to store your Crypto.
I am sure that this subject raises very highly charged emotions in people in one way or another. I will just say that I am happy to take high risk with a SMALL amount of my net worth/wife's medical funds. I fully understand I could lose it, and I fully understand that most, if not all coins are going to disappear. But I don't see a small investment any more risky than investing in a large plot of land I have seen for sale on the Isle of Wight!!
Bottom line..............We are all here to make money. How we do it is personal choice, the risk we take we understand. If we did not understand the risk, we need to educate ourselves. If you still don't understand the risks, or aren't prepared to lose everything you invest, walk away.
Right, off to the IOW to look at a piece of land that has become available!
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 12, 2018 11:29:32 GMT
Just to get this thread back a little more light hearted, I will let you in on the conversation me and my brother had in the new year:
Me: "Did you get caught up in the big Crypto crash on the 22nd of December?"
Brother: "No, luckily I missed that one, but I nearly got caught out by the 3rd crash on the 24th! I started the day 35% up on the week and ended it 5% down after touching 40% in either direction. Phew, that was close!"
Not really light hearted, but when you play with fire, this is as comical as it gets!
Thank God I love my grey hair!
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macq
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Post by macq on Jan 12, 2018 11:31:07 GMT
i did mention Kodak in a post early in the week and while it is daft how the price jumped it does in someway make sense to an old timer like me in that they are making something that people want in a big way at the moment so the company has increased its value.I agree with Bobo that at the moment crypto feels like something that is traded between people who like that sort of thing i believe some even started as being used in games & the take up was much earlier in Japan,Korea etc.But the comment of the cat is out of the bag is probably true in the sense the idea is out there now and one or two may/will become the norm. But the age thing could be true - by the time i had read up on Bitcoin the next search bought up Ripple followed by Dogecoin and then more & more and my eyes could not keep up with my brain If i had to pick one IOTA looked interesting but in 10 minutes it may have been replaced but it seemed to have backing from industry but again how that gives it a value i don't know,guess i will follow the links to the videos
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 12, 2018 11:48:28 GMT
i did mention Kodak in a post early in the week and while it is daft how the price jumped it does in someway make sense to an old timer like me in that they are making something that people want in a big way at the moment so the company has increased its value.I agree with Bobo that at the moment crypto feels like something that is traded between people who like that sort of thing i believe some even started as being used in games & the take up was much earlier in Japan,Korea etc.But the comment of the cat is out of the bag is probably true in the sense the idea is out there now and one or two may/will become the norm. But the age thing could be true - by the time i had read up on Bitcoin the next search bought up Ripple followed by Dogecoin and then more & more and my eyes could not keep up with my brain If i had to pick one IOTA looked interesting but in 10 minutes it may have been replaced but it seemed to have backing from industry but again how that gives it a value i don't know,guess i will follow the links to the videosBloody hell macq, you really picked that up quickly!
You are correct though in more ways than you may think. Ripple is tipped to be the next big thing, and it has a lot of backing from a lot of financial institutions. In fact, the Ripple blog was what got my juices flowing about Crypto and where it was going. Dogecoin, I am not sure of, but it is being given some exposure in certain quarters so it may rise, but I don't expect it to be the next "Bitcoin". Mind you, what do I know, I made an investment in a horrible looking house in Hampton court!! (Not too much I am glad to add!)
The interesting one you mention is IOTA. That is taking off too, and, as you say, like Ripple has a lot of industry backing.
I am 49 and I think that even I am too old to seriously have any real insight into this technology, but as I said, I am excited to see where this goes for the future generations.
This technology moves fast and the currencies move even faster. As an example, the Ripple in March 2017 was selling for $0.005 per Ripple. There was a sustained period of stability where the Ripple was around $0.3 per Ripple. This stayed constant until around the 17th December 2017 where the Ripple started to climb. On January 4th, the Ripple peaked at $3.47. This is an eye-watering amount when you see some people listing +1m of these on the exchange at a time. If they bought at the bottom and waited, WOW!
The gaming industry will be turned on it's head by this too. Micropayments will take over from subscriptions. I can see this eventually being used by the internet. Each time you click on a website rather than waiting for the advertising money to be issued by Google or whoever, the payment will be instant from the wallet of the advertiser. I am no web expert but there will be so many different uses for this.
Anyway, I need to go and get a life! If you don't want to get on the ride, enjoy the view from the side lines and enjoy seeing the photo's of the riders horrified faces!
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 12, 2018 20:54:40 GMT
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 13, 2018 12:29:54 GMT
Not sure if anyone followed what happened on Kraken but there were people throwing themselves off buildings and all sorts!
The website went down for a backend overhaul for what was meant to be 2 hours on Thursday morning. They finally came back online today! People were calling the FBI, Interpol and all sorts.
Anyway, when I logged back onto my account this morning, I was $86m up on when they went offline! I like this new look backend of Kraken.com!
Needless to say, "Withdrawals are currently suspended"!
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scc
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Post by scc on Jan 13, 2018 13:58:39 GMT
i suspect the panic with Kraken has come about because there's a been a few exchanges that got hacked and then basically declared themselves bankrupt.
Dogecoin was created as a joke coin, wasn't it? Still, in a bubble even turkeys might fly?
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 13, 2018 14:06:16 GMT
i suspect the panic with Kraken has come about because there's a been a few exchanges that got hacked and then basically declared themselves bankrupt. Dogecoin was created as a joke coin, wasn't it? Still, in a bubble even turkeys might fly? The panic came about with Kraken because they remained quiet in certain quarters, including their own status update page. Kraken has a lot higher security than the exchange that I suspect you are referring to (Mtgox?). However, when an exchange stay quiet for over 8 hours when their website is down, panic becomes endemic.
Dogecoin probably was created as a joke, however I am now over 360% up in less than a month. I don't mind being a joke or a turkey for those kind of returns.
Here come the bubble comments again!!
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moogman
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Post by moogman on Jan 13, 2018 15:32:01 GMT
Yes I must say this is very similar to that of the mtgox case, where things went a bit hairy, followed by a complete blackout. It certainly doesn't help that the exchange was 'reassuring' people that "funds are still safe", even though it was the trading engine that was being upgraded.
Regardless of the exchange that you use, you do need to keep your coins in an offline wallet, to protect from outage/hacks etc. If you are actively trading then (IMO) you should still keep 80%+ of your funds offline to protect your downside risk.
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I see the benefit in blockchain, mainly because it allows verifiable remote contracts. I see it creeping into everything type as engineers realise they need a contract for provability.
I'm yet to be convinced on the direct currency or banking potential, though am speculating a small amount for fun and profit!
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 13, 2018 15:43:27 GMT
Yes I must say this is very similar to that of the mtgox case, where things went a bit hairy, followed by a complete blackout. It certainly doesn't help that the exchange was 'reassuring' people that "funds are still safe", even though it was the trading engine that was being upgraded. Regardless of the exchange that you use, you do need to keep your coins in an offline wallet, to protect from outage/hacks etc. If you are actively trading then (IMO) you should still keep 80%+ of your funds offline to protect your downside risk. --- I see the benefit in blockchain, mainly because it allows verifiable remote contracts. I see it creeping into everything type as engineers realise they need a contract for provability. I'm yet to be convinced on the direct currency or banking potential, though am speculating a small amount for fun and profit! I think the reason why they started reassuring people that the funds were safe was because the claims on Reddit, Twitter etc. were becoming more and more paranoid with every passing minute that the website was down.
I really don't have that much hanging around on the exchange but some online were talking of $100,000's (Be that truth or bravado who knows), but I can assume that some of them have fairly large sums invested in Kraken. Kraken takes over $4m a day in fees alone.
As for where this ride ends up, who knows, but while the exchanges are there, and they are doing my favourite thing, giving away money, I don't mind taking a gamble. And, I am fully aware that I could lose everything I am gambling with. When the fun stops, STOP!
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moogman
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Post by moogman on Jan 13, 2018 15:55:18 GMT
It might be worth pointing out that when the music stops, everyone will take their chairs with them, so there will be nowhere to sit and you'll be stuck holding the gone off hot potato.
It's less of an issue if you holding currency directly (heck, you will 'only' lose 100% of your investments. But if you're doing margin trading then you would be well advised to take at when the Swiss bank unpegged CHF against EUR. Some people were literally hundreds of thousands in debt because they couldn't close out their highly leveraged trades.
Apologies if this is old news to you all, which I'm sure it is!
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Post by skint4achange on Jan 13, 2018 16:10:41 GMT
I certainly do not do leveraged trading in Crypto. I don't very often do leveraged trading in Fiat!
As for losing 100%, surely that is the basis of everything we trade in? Be it property, stock market, IFISA. General rule of thumb, never invest more than you can afford to lose!
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jan 13, 2018 17:34:25 GMT
As for losing 100%, surely that is the basis of everything we trade in? Be it property, stock market, IFISA. General rule of thumb, never invest more than you can afford to lose! Exactly. Given some of some of the capital losses I encountered in P2P throughout 2017 and potential upcoming defaults in 2018 I'd say crypto isn't actually all that scary a place to be...
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