aju
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Post by aju on Jan 21, 2018 11:26:23 GMT
Not had mine started yet either. It sounds like Mrs A is one of the first. I did get a missed call from Zopa a few days ago - but I suspect most likely related to my transfer from an existing cash ISA into Zopa. I'd been holding back on returning their form until I knew whether I needed to change my car or not (fortunately the answer was 'not', so form has now been sent). You will get 2 days notice in an email as Zopa stated you can back out at that point if you so wished but after 2 working days the process will start and is estimated to take 10 days. Apparently they don;t select you to start until all the loans values line up on both sides. Quite a highly complex affair I'm guessing, lets hope the web site side of development are not involved perhaps - I'm guessing this is such a transient thing that web cover for this was deemed a side issue and not needed. If you are ok with lending at 1% rates per loan on your incoming ISA transfer then the fact you cannot control anything whilst the SG transfer takes place then you will be ok. I'm still to be convinced that controlling my diversification by limiting loans to Max £10 is of any benefit but I'm trying it at the moment. As I said above without the visibility then relend might be triggered with a higher loan rate and its not possible to limit this withuot turning off re-lend before the SG transfer takes hold. My main gripe is that I like to see whats happening with my defaults and have a large number of stats data I update weekly quite apart from how uncomfortable it feels not being able to see 5 figure sums are still there - probably a bit unhinged but a real concern none the less. Whilst Mrs aju's current state of affairs is not available at the moment I got another default. It's probable, based on current defaults experience so far, she has this default as well. Our lending levels are identical and made at same time so this may be the case (I should have realised we might be committing to the same loans but hey one lives and learns and I must get my excel act together and see what level of the same loans we have but that's for another day at the moment)
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Post by misotu on Jan 22, 2018 9:15:20 GMT
I did keep a bit of an eye on loan duplication when Mr M and I were both lending out in Core. It happened surprisingly infrequently in our case, and we don't have more than £20 lent out to any one borrower between us, so I was pretty sanguine about it. Hopefully that's the case with you and Mrs Aju.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jan 22, 2018 19:07:42 GMT
Okay so I pulled my finger out and joined the all_time_ISA csv's for both our ISA investments of 5th Jan using Excel VLookUp functions. It seems that we have a bit more exposure to duplication than you misotu . Total of 804 loans are duplicated (approx 40% of our total loans each) 6 of these loans are of £20 (£120 at higher risk than the £10 ones are) As I said above about my latest defaults I can also now confirm that Mrs Aju also has that default even though at the moment we cannot see Mrs Aju detail due to the SG transfer. Not what I was expecting but hey the interest is good at the moment ;-)
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Post by misotu on Jan 23, 2018 9:54:44 GMT
Ouch!
Mind you, I was complaining like hell about Mr M's slow lending at the time, while my funds shot out of the door whether repayments or new money. And my return remained stubbornly 0.3% below par while his was 0.2% above, with the algorithm seeming extremely reluctant to match him to the low-return A* borrowers. So perhaps all those discrepancies benefited us a bit, duplication-wise.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jan 23, 2018 10:34:42 GMT
We'll see over the next few months. I'm not panicking as on the up side we are both getting good interest at the moment whcih will more than cover the defaults based on past experience. There is still a lot of cover in the loans as well from my our interest so far (Actually I forgot to process out the SG covered loans in collections etc).
If the past is anything to go by then the defaults will trickle in over the next few months and then stabilise to degree. Also we are both relending as well so that should mitigate a lot of stuff. I can't remember who or where but someone recently said that these are 5 year deals and I kind of agree. It's too early to start a panic and I always think that selling them off will reduce any profits further by 1%.
I prefer to just watch these micro things as an interesting novelty but concentrate on the long game overall. I'll be able to compare and get a better picture when I get a full years worth. Using 12 months is a more accurate approach I feel. Also the end of year tax based report will be 2nd and in some respects in my case a better measure.
My main aim is to be able to better inflation to ensure that my spare cash is not losing money with "Inflation Tax", Also I check each product in both side on a yearly cycle and also as a whole - after all if I put this into a bank I would only get an overall amount either monthly or yearly depending on product.
I do get the early adopters for both sides as well and that helps on my investment.
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Post by misotu on Jan 23, 2018 10:58:55 GMT
Statistically, duplication shouldn't make any difference to the overall return given the microloan size and sums involved, as you know. It's just a bit unrewarding to have so many dupes after all the effort to keep the exposure to £10 per borrower! But I haven't bothered to do a proper analysis of dupes for Mr M and I, in the long run it won't matter.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jan 28, 2018 1:40:28 GMT
Okay Mrs's AJU's SG transfer from Invest to ISA has completed - I assumed it would arrive as ISACore with SG cover but in fact it is "Zopa Classic" under the ISA umbrella.
The general time window is as follows.
16/1 11:46 Email prompt that transfer will happen in 2 working days. 18/1 PM Lost all access to both Invest and ISA data on Mrs Aju's account 26/1 18:05 Email received to say all is completed. 23p short of full allocation
So what actually happened under the hood.
In invest Zopa Classic Side 18/1 @14:02 535 loans are sold by rapid return @ approx 20-22 loans per minute and Values does not seem to be a factor. (Probably pre loaded or something) 18/1 @14:32 All loans for transfer have been sold - averaged at 17.83 loans a minute.
In ISA Zopa Classic side 18/1 @14:02 Loans start buying. 18/1 @14:30 all loans are bought up and fully invested.
I'm guessing Invest and ISA transfer platforms were not clock synchronized as Mrs Aju seemed to buy 1 ISA loan before they were all sold from the Invest side!.
The most interesting and also annoying thing is that 3 loans were closed within 5 days of purchase with one loan only lasting for 30 hrs before closing. Good thing is though I got 5p interest from these 3 loans all told!.
The really annoying thing is that my statement analyser does not deal well with rapid returns so that's a bit of work I will have to pick up. Also it seems that a few of the new loans are already in Mrs Aju's existing ISAcore book as well but not really an issue with SG cover.
Now all I have to do is wait for my invite to transfer.
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Post by misotu on Jan 29, 2018 9:12:10 GMT
Thanks for the information aju, this is very helpful.
So when did Mrs aju regain access to her account? From what you've said, she lost access on the 18th but all the loans were bought and sold on that same day, although the confirmation email didn't arrive for over a week. Did she get access back on the 19th or not until the date of the confirmation email?
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Post by wyndstryke on Jan 29, 2018 14:55:56 GMT
This is one situation where we may not be able to rely on timestamps.
Hypothetically speaking, say the process took multiple days. I suspect that Zopa would have backdated the transactions in order to not lose payments 'falling into the gap'. Which would explain why they may have wanted to block off access.
Changing subject slightly to the ISA-to-ISA transfers, I know my bank has sent Z a cheque for the ISA transfer money, so presumably I'll be getting an email soon. I want to try to break it down into £10 chunks, so I'll be watching very closely.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jan 29, 2018 17:05:30 GMT
misotu no you dont get any access until email arrives, she was checking every day religously. I agree with wyndstryke to a point. I think zopa probably ran them as separate processes and then ran checking routines that verified the actual loans were acceptable and fit all the relevant criteria. Be interesting to see what happens on the Isa-isa transfer, thats what i plan to do as well later when the sg transfers are completed for me. I must try to do them both staggered this time to reduce duplicate loans across our products.
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Post by misotu on Jan 29, 2018 20:47:47 GMT
Ah yes, I hadn't thought about the idea of the transfer date being notional. Makes sense.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jan 30, 2018 23:06:40 GMT
Its got even curiouser as we delve more into Mrs Aju's ISA-Classic data. She seems to have a number of loans that at first glance look like they are duplicate entries but in fact they are separate loans to the same borrower made on the same day but with fractionally different lend amounts. Some look identical so I guess the transfer mechanism has in fact created 2 loans out of sequence with each other based on the rate and length match etc.
The thing is its made it very difficult to be able to see what loanbook entry is associated with what payments detail in the statements data at these duplicate loan levels. At this level it's not too much of an issue but there are loans across different products as well so splitting them out is also problematic.
I was trying to develop a method using statements data and the "Closed" state in the loanbook to identify the closed date of any given loan. I was hoping to automate it but I guess I'll have to go back to the drawing board on that one for the moment - or badger Zopa again to provide the relevant closed date for a loan in the loanbook CSV, to be honest I can't see why they do not provide this other than so we can't see how a given loan really performed.
These duplicate loans also look a bit odd in the online loanbook as there is little to distinguish them with the fields presented on screen. I have one loan that has 3 parts and onscreen it looks identical and more like a duplicate entries. Only when looking in the finer CSV detail can one see that this is not a duplicate. In one case though even at CSV the loan book looks like duplicate entrys. Only looking at the even finer statements level can one see there are 3 entries for disbursal and 3 capital/interest entries per chunk of the loan. Even then it were not for the three timestamped entries in the statements file it would look more like a duplication, in this instance the lender rates seem identical but perhaps there are slight rounding/dp anomalies making it impossible to consolidate them together.
As there are some duplicates across Core and ISA Classic as well I wonder if there are more instances than I realise. Its more of an issue in the Non SG covered stuff I guess.
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Post by wyndstryke on Feb 3, 2018 13:53:05 GMT
So looks like it'll be this month. The hard deadline is of course the new tax year which starts in April. My ISA-to-ISA transfer went through last night, so I'm relieved that they didn't happen at the same time (if the account blackout happened at the same time as the ISA-to-ISA being received would have been a big issue since I wouldn't have been able to diversify it properly by drip feeding from Holding).
Highlighting is mine, just to draw attention to the account blackout which will happen.
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aju
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Post by aju on Feb 3, 2018 22:47:50 GMT
#metoo!, yeah I got one of those emails as well. Hopefully I will be able to get copies of everything immediately before and afterwards this time.
I've been checking out some stuff in Mrs Aju's process that completed last week. At the moment the statements do not seem to be recording that the money has gone from the Invest side to the ISA side. Its interesting as up to this point statements reflect money in - Disbursal sees this - but I can see when the Invest side loans were sold but the money leaving does not get recorded as far as I can tell.
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portlandbill
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Post by portlandbill on Feb 4, 2018 9:44:02 GMT
I gave up waiting (after 2 months) and decided to set my repayments to holding instead. The interest rates just don't reflect the risk anymore now there's no safeguard, tax free or not. I'll move to a more lucrative platform.
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