hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Jan 31, 2018 20:24:10 GMT
I'm hoping to get out of PM this year, as all my property terms are coming to an end.
I have had dismally poor performance across most of my properties, with negligible dividends being paid and multiple 0s on the net rent amount.
If I can get out with most of my capital back I will be pleasantly surprised.
However, the HMOs were valued as commerical properties based on their expected rent (which we now know is even worse than some RICS valuations on P2P sites).
Given most of my HMOs have had 0 - 1 rooms out of 5 - 6 rooms rented most of the time, I don't see why an investor would be interested in buying them.
Even at 50% off the intial price, the dividend would be poor, and coupled with the hassle factor of managing low end tenants I see them as unsellable.
Are PM the worst property buyers out there? Are there any HMO owners who are doing as badly? To be honest, if they threw their hands up and admitted they had bought a bunch of duffers (for the ones that have turned out badly), I would feel less resentful towards them.
As a larger value investor, property partner regularly reach out to me and offer me 5% cashback etc.
PM clearly don't give a toss, even though if the platform had delivered close to what was promised, I would likely have invested 100 - 200 k by now.
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Post by propertycalf on Jan 31, 2018 21:40:16 GMT
I don't have much experience with the HMO's on the platform and it sounds like my returns might have been higher than your experience, but that is probably just down to spreading the risk and luckily not being heavily weighted in the SPV's that are vacant or been obliterated by assassin loans.
Who knows we're it goes from here, new buy to let properties seem to have really dried up.. They must see more money in the secured loan notes.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Jan 31, 2018 22:13:10 GMT
I admit some of the returns of HMO are poor.
Take PM SPV 19 for example, at the start of the term, it stated the monthly rental is £1475 on a fixed AST, it managed to received £1126 in May 16, but rest of the other months received less than £700 after cost. Sometimes, it received less than £200 for letting out 2 rooms out of 4.
If it was running like an AirBNB, it would have charged the customers cleaning fees, £150 cleaning fee for tenants as if they can't keep the place clean 😑.
Usually, HMO generates higher return than a single household let.
A real landlord cares about how much money make a year for the BTL, if HMO makes less money, then it is probably wiser to change the letting to single household and maximise the return. I mean it's better to have a 5% discount in rent than losing rental for 1 month in a year.
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pom
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Post by pom on Jan 31, 2018 22:26:20 GMT
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I invested far too much in HMOs generally, wouldn't touch them for anything now. My worst performing one tho is on THC..the first year was 1.7%, well it was the first year things were sure to improve? 0.1% the following year...
So it's perhaps not surprising that I'm generally a lot happier with PM, as overall I'm doing OK with them, but I am invested in a pretty large number of properties
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damar
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Post by damar on Feb 1, 2018 5:51:28 GMT
I too am wanting out,
my only property left ia a HMO, which was doing quite well, however it has now been off the market for 3.5 months while it is being revalued.
i think the property is posted to the revaluer brick by brick, maybe thats why it takes so long
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Post by sayyestocress on Feb 1, 2018 8:41:59 GMT
They do sell, I've been selling out over the past couple of months and am only left with properties that are locked away from the secondary market. Though I've only had 3 figure sums in any one property; bigger amounts may be harder to shift. I found that you need to price the lesser properties such that the total cost to the buyer is below £10 else they don't seem to shift. I'm amazed people bought my SPV 47 and 50 shares at almost £10 a pop (once PM's fee is added) even after the debts to PM were announced. I've made money overall with PM once dividends are accounted for but the return is pretty poor given it was between 3 and 4% yield before I sold a large proportion of shares for less than I paid for them. I'd rather take the hit now than continue with a company I have lost confidence in. I have no interest in their opaque PMF loan products or development loans that look like the kind of thing you'd find on FS, LY, COL or MT but provide less information.
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Post by propertycalf on Feb 1, 2018 11:52:11 GMT
I'm not interested in the loan notes either.. If the concept of crowdfunded buy to let isn't simple enough, then obscure loan notes aren't for me!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 16:56:32 GMT
I have some properties coming to the end of their term and one that is already over the end of its term.
I've heard nothing on them being sold despite PM's vague update in December about their new plans going forward.
I also have a loan note coming to end of term and wonder what will happen with that.
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Feb 2, 2018 1:06:52 GMT
I don't have much experience with the HMO's on the platform and it sounds like my returns might have been higher than your experience, but that is probably just down to spreading the risk and luckily not being heavily weighted in the SPV's that are vacant or been obliterated by assassin loans. Who knows we're it goes from here, new buy to let properties seem to have really dried up.. They must see more money in the secured loan notes. I suspect that BTL have dried up as they know demand for them has - it was a nice niche product (BTL in lower rent areas), but it seems to have failed, whether that is largely down to poor execution and/or luck is your call. With so many on here selling out/refusing to buy more on here, who is buying? I can see 3 options: - We just happen to have a much higher than average proportion of unhappy folk (likely to some extent, but not IMHO the full story).
- The unhappy folk on here are just more vocal & there is a happy band of users (on here & otherwise) who continue to buy.
- Quantitative easing?
The last one I won't say too much on.
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damar
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Post by damar on Feb 2, 2018 6:49:23 GMT
I think that there is a only a small percentage of PM investors on the forum, I think everyone else is unaware of the forum, or is not interested.
so although a high percentage of forum users are suitably underwhelmed by PM performance, they represent a small percentage of overall investors.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Feb 2, 2018 11:15:59 GMT
I think that there is a only a small percentage of PM investors on the forum, I think everyone else is unaware of the forum, or is not interested. so although a high percentage of forum users are suitably underwhelmed by PM performance, they represent a small percentage of overall investors. The truth, there are 27k members on PM. However, a lot of them has less than 100 investors in each SPV (high stake £500+), and those £10 ones has less than 1000 investors,
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Feb 2, 2018 22:30:21 GMT
so although a high percentage of forum users are suitably underwhelmed by PM performance, they represent a small percentage of overall investors. I understand & appreciate that fact. My question is, is the sample here typical of the active PM users (say those with £100 invested & who signed in in each of the last two quarters)?
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Post by propertycalf on Feb 3, 2018 19:40:37 GMT
I think most pm members on here will care more than someone who invested £50 months ago and forgot about it
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jnm21
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Post by jnm21 on Feb 5, 2018 10:28:12 GMT
I think most pm members on here will care more than someone who invested £50 months ago and forgot about it That is why I care if the sample here is typical of active users. Feel slightly sorry for anyone who invested significantly (say 4 figures) and comes back on the anniversary expecting a 6% return to be waiting - they could have a shock! Perhaps they would expect an email notification of significant news!
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Post by davids on Feb 5, 2018 17:24:51 GMT
i'm "new" compared to some people to p2p but i think a lot of people view buy-to-let/ equities the wrong way.
i think people should almost view it as expendable, like going to the shop and spending £10 on a DVD, except that DVD is a share in a house somewhere in Bolton or Oldham wherever. Not so far as you write off every £10 you spend, but don't expect to be able to say "right i want my £10 back now". You'll likely earn something on it, requires very little management, if any at all. Obviously some are better than others, but you won't miss not having that £10 in your account and you likely won't need that £10 again.
I suppose it also comes down to that saying "don't gamble what you can't afford to lose"
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