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Post by bikeman on Feb 13, 2018 12:34:48 GMT
#437 I** loan which I'm in is not paying out from the PF. As it's not in default. Last interest payment received 20/09/17  I'm confused  My GEIA is 100% invested in loan 437. In summary 20% was quickly invested in this loan when I first allocated funds to the GEIA. Then nothing else at all. After a few weeks I got fed up of waiting and withdrew the other 80% of non invested cash. However loan 437 had already been suspended and could not be withdrawn. Thus I have received no interest at all on my GEIA for the past 5 months and was expecting the missing interest to be paid from the provision fund. I logged in after receiving that email yesterday and nothing has been paid, not even nanopence My understanding is this loan is suspended but not formally defaulted. The FAQ state that the provision fund does not cover default interest. So if this loan is not in default why isn't it covered? Exactly what happened to me. Lack of diversification, over exposure, poor due diligence in assessing borrowers etc etc It's all going in my complaint to the FOA. It's far too easy for AC to suspend a loan even before it goes into default. Lenders get no interest, the PF doesn't payout and there's little incentive for them to recover our losses. The GEIA and GBBA are an incompetent failure which Assetz Capital are attempting to step away from. I hope they are enjoying the bad publicity they are getting.
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teddy
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Post by teddy on Feb 13, 2018 12:47:57 GMT
Loan #330 is a prime example of a loan in default where the principal should immediately be refunded to lenders from the PF, but I can't see it happening.
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teddy
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Post by teddy on Feb 13, 2018 12:52:03 GMT
I'm confused My GEIA is 100% invested in loan 437. In summary 20% was quickly invested in this loan when I first allocated funds to the GEIA. Then nothing else at all. After a few weeks I got fed up of waiting and withdrew the other 80% of non invested cash. However loan 437 had already been suspended and could not be withdrawn. Thus I have received no interest at all on my GEIA for the past 5 months and was expecting the missing interest to be paid from the provision fund. I logged in after receiving that email yesterday and nothing has been paid, not even nanopence My understanding is this loan is suspended but not formally defaulted. The FAQ state that the provision fund does not cover default interest. So if this loan is not in default why isn't it covered? Exactly what happened to me. Lack of diversification, over exposure, poor due diligence in assessing borrowers etc etc It's all going in my complaint to the FOA. It's far too easy for AC to suspend a loan even before it goes into default. Lenders get no interest, the PF doesn't payout and there's little incentive for them to recover our losses. The GEIA and GBBA are an incompetent failure which Assetz Capital are attempting to step away from. I hope they are enjoying the bad publicity they are getting. You're spot on about the lack of due diligence. Having gone on google, after 10 mins of basic investigations, I found enough of the brown stuff about the turbine company not to have lent them beer money, let alone £4.5m of OUR money. AC are just the casino banking arm of RBS as far as I'm concerned. Nothing's changed since the financial crisis. It's all still spivs playing roulette with the little people's money.
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Post by westcountryfunder on Feb 13, 2018 13:03:27 GMT
Well, we all speak as we find, of course. Just to add some balance to this discussion, I can tell you my experience of the GBBA account.
I started in August 2015. I run a separate AC account for GBBA (which now includes GBBA and GBBA2), but at times there have been cash balances either awaiting investment or withdrawal at my discretion. Money has gone in and out to suit my own requirements, but peaked at about £70k.
On a simple interest basis my yield is 6.02%, or 6.84% including accrued interest. This includes the funds from the provision account, just received.
I have not attempted to analyze just how much the yield has been diluted due to holding cash at times, but I have no complaint - none whatsoever.
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markdirac
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Post by markdirac on Feb 13, 2018 13:32:11 GMT
Well, we all speak as we find, of course. Just to add some balance to this discussion, I can tell you my experience of the GBBA account. I started in August 2015. I run a separate AC account for GBBA (which now includes GBBA and GBBA2), but at times there have been cash balances either awaiting investment or withdrawal at my discretion. Money has gone in and out to suit my own requirements, but peaked at about £70k. On a simple interest basis my yield is 6.02%, or 6.84% including accrued interest. This includes the funds from the provision account, just received. I have not attempted to analyze just how much the yield has been diluted due to holding cash at times, but I have no complaint - none whatsoever. Thanks West. For your fund of £70k, approx. how much have you just received from the PF? (I received negligible yesterday on my funds.)
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angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Feb 13, 2018 14:15:14 GMT
Exactly what happened to me. Lack of diversification, over exposure, poor due diligence in assessing borrowers etc etc It's all going in my complaint to the FOA. It's far too easy for AC to suspend a loan even before it goes into default. Lenders get no interest, the PF doesn't payout and there's little incentive for them to recover our losses. The GEIA and GBBA are an incompetent failure which Assetz Capital are attempting to step away from. I hope they are enjoying the bad publicity they are getting. You're spot on about the lack of due diligence. Having gone on google, after 10 mins of basic investigations, I found enough of the brown stuff about the turbine company not to have lent them beer money, let alone £4.5m of OUR money. AC are just the casino banking arm of RBS as far as I'm concerned. Nothing's changed since the financial crisis. It's all still spivs playing roulette with the little people's money. I think the lesson here is you have to do your own thinking/research before you invest in something. I dont consider myself an expert investor but when I first went to AC I put my money in the business account - I took one look at the large chunks they allocated me and withdrew my money right away. I put it into the 30 day account which seemed alot more diversified then over time I withdrew it and invested in to what is now a portfolio where no loan is greater than 1% of the total and earns about 7.5%. I got a bit nailed on the turnbines because there were multiple loans so it ended up being something like 2.5% of my portfolio in them Chances are you will see atleast a good chunk of your money back but at the end of the day you have to take responsibility for your own investments.
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Post by westcountryfunder on Feb 13, 2018 15:02:53 GMT
Well, we all speak as we find, of course. Just to add some balance to this discussion, I can tell you my experience of the GBBA account. I started in August 2015. I run a separate AC account for GBBA (which now includes GBBA and GBBA2), but at times there have been cash balances either awaiting investment or withdrawal at my discretion. Money has gone in and out to suit my own requirements, but peaked at about £70k. On a simple interest basis my yield is 6.02%, or 6.84% including accrued interest. This includes the funds from the provision account, just received. I have not attempted to analyze just how much the yield has been diluted due to holding cash at times, but I have no complaint - none whatsoever. Thanks West. For your fund of £70k, approx. how much have you just received from the PF? (I received negligible yesterday on my funds.) The princely sum of £1.31, but I draw no conclusions from this. It all related to loan 296. My account balance is now a little less than half what it peaked at, partly because I have withdrawn funds and transferred them to the AC IFISA GBBA.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Feb 13, 2018 17:25:11 GMT
However, the gap I can see is normal interest whilst in default. If loan X defaults and takes a year to either recover capital or have the PF close the gap with capital, then whilst the capital has been made whole, I’m missing 7% of X (if GEA). Do I read the FAQ correctly stuartassetzcapital and think that this “normal interest whilst in default” is not covered by the PF and won’t ever be paid out, unless the asset recovery is sufficient to cover it? Yes you have read this correctly I believe. Whilst a loan is in default then interest accrues and if recovered alongside and on top of the full capital being recovered then it would be paid at that time but the PF will not pay out interest during that recovery process as it was designed to handle late / missed interest on pre-defaulted loans as per the FAQs, and not to make payments of interest during a recovery process. Capital payments are prioritised during the recovery process and making monthly interest payments during recovery/ post default would be putting interest ahead of capital. Bearing in mind that we are a secured lender and have a loan book that is under 60% Loan to Value we have expectations (based upon our loan valuations and other credit approval analysis) when extending loans that recoveries would generally materially support capital recovery as well as late interest and fees for the recovery process. Clearly life isn't always that perfect and in some cases that full extent of recovery may not be possible. I hope this helps. Also bear in mind that the actual interest rate you are being paid at any time may be less than the account headline rate for a couple of other reasons - firstly if the cash in the account is presently not fully invested (see GBBA series 1 and the cash queue that formed to come in when loans that matched the account were in short supply) and secondly when loans have rolled up interest to be paid on loan redemption (not that many) in which case the interest will be paid in a single sum at the end of the loan and recover the previous underpayments. The PF is not designed to cover rolled up interest loans. Again I hope this helps. We would like to introduce an XIRR function to display interest rates being earned (for those doing this on their spreadsheets manually) in the near future to indicate cash based interest rate returns on accounts as well as interest rate returns once accrued interest was also allowed for.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Feb 13, 2018 17:33:52 GMT
PF will cover capital losses if the security, when sold and when other available realisation avenues have been exhausted, does not cover the loan balance remaining. It doesn't cover the capital whilst the loan is suspended. It also covers payment delays/shortfalls of interest from a borrower where that sum arrives later than expected. <snip> Whilst any payment from the PF is to be welcomed, the additional problem is when will a default actually be declared. I'm under the impression - hopefully incorrectly - that AC are professional can kickers when it comes to formally defaulting a loan. Does anyone genuinely believe there will be further recovery from loans 132 and 146 - just a couple of examples. AC IMO should formally default so we can all move on. In the unlikely event of there being further pennies recovered then these can be distributed as straightforward income and declared as such. Somewhere down the line some reality does need to be applied. Hi These two loans are not in any PF covered accounts as they are very early loans so there will be no capital payouts by the PF for these two. I would expect we are getting close to closing these loans off formally but our recoveries team no doubt have a plan and a reason not to do so quite yet. It's the opposite of any investor detriment as there could be a possible further payout as it stands and formally closing off and moving on would mean we have stopped trying. It doesn't stop anyone from writing it off on their tax return if they wish I understand. Our team is tenacious and certainly not slow, just careful and thorough I would contend, based on their vast experience. We are one of the few P2P lenders with deeply experienced in house recovery teams and the evidence is building of that skill.
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happy
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Post by happy on Feb 13, 2018 17:41:51 GMT
Loan #330 is a prime example of a loan in default where the principal should immediately be refunded to lenders from the PF, but I can't see it happening. Why do you think that the AC PF should pay out on this or any other loan immediately? I have never seen anything that remotely suggests they have ever stated they should pay out on loans protected by the PF when the loan defaults,. Please try to understand the PF protects you against capital loss not against a loan default event and we have no right to access to our capital or to get any of our money back until the underlying security is recovered. To suggest otherwise is pure fantasy. This is SME P2P and defaults happen, your investment gets locked up pending recovery and hopefully you don't loose any of you capital. It happens not just here at AC but all other platforms like it as far as I know. If you cannot accept that then IMO you should not be lending here.
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dave2
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Post by dave2 on Feb 13, 2018 18:54:26 GMT
blah blah blah .. according to the last email sent to lenders last November. blah blah blah Would that be the e-mail that specifically requested recipients not to reveal the contents in full or in part as it could damage the recovery strategy and have a negative impact on realisations?
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happy
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Post by happy on Feb 13, 2018 19:42:38 GMT
blah blah blah .. according to the last email sent to lenders last November. blah blah blah Would that be the e-mail that specifically requested recipients not to reveal the contents in full or in part as it could damage the recovery strategy and have a negative impact on realisations? And not for the first time either unfortunately.......
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jonah
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Post by jonah on Feb 13, 2018 20:45:10 GMT
However, the gap I can see is normal interest whilst in default. If loan X defaults and takes a year to either recover capital or have the PF close the gap with capital, then whilst the capital has been made whole, I’m missing 7% of X (if GEA). Do I read the FAQ correctly stuartassetzcapital and think that this “normal interest whilst in default” is not covered by the PF and won’t ever be paid out, unless the asset recovery is sufficient to cover it? Yes you have read this correctly I believe. Whilst a loan is in default then interest accrues and if recovered alongside and on top of the full capital being recovered then it would be paid at that time but the PF will not pay out interest during that recovery process as it was designed to handle late / missed interest on pre-defaulted loans as per the FAQs, and not to make payments of interest during a recovery process. Capital payments are prioritised during the recovery process and making monthly interest payments during recovery/ post default would be putting interest ahead of capital. Bearing in mind that we are a secured lender and have a loan book that is under 60% Loan to Value we have expectations (based upon our loan valuations and other credit approval analysis) when extending loans that recoveries would generally materially support capital recovery as well as late interest and fees for the recovery process. Clearly life isn't always that perfect and in some cases that full extent of recovery may not be possible. I hope this helps. Understood. This does mean that the diversification question is key. If, for example, 10% of a packaged account is in a loan which is in default for two years before recovery which only covers capital, then for those two years the interest on the account will be 10% down (ignoring other sources of cash drag) from the base rate and will never close the gap. As 2 years feels plausible for recovery based on other AC loans the best defence has to be small slices in lots of loans, not 20% chunks. So I’m looking forward to understanding the improvements in this area. As one of the spreadsheet users and I’ve posted results here, I wouldn’t mind an automated version. Until the announcement after not covering some of the interest I was pretty happy with the paid and accrued interest. Now I’m reconsidering somewhat but hopefully a little more spreadsheet time and the improved diversification will address those concerns. As an aside, thanks for the discussions on the forum. It’s good to get clarity.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 13, 2018 22:20:06 GMT
<snip> It doesn't stop anyone from writing it off on their tax return if they wish I understand. <snip> I will need to take advice on this. As I understood matters it was necessary for the platform to declare a loan default and show it on the individual's platform issued fiscal year statement before any write-off could be effected on the tax return. I'm not convinced HMRC will simply accept a default declared by an individual without platform documentation. But I'll take the necessary advice as possibly things have changed.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 14, 2018 1:19:07 GMT
<snip> It doesn't stop anyone from writing it off on their tax return if they wish I understand. <snip> I will need to take advice on this. As I understood matters it was necessary for the platform to declare a loan default and show it on the individual's platform issued fiscal year statement before any write-off could be effected on the tax return. I'm not convinced HMRC will simply accept a default declared by an individual without platform documentation. But I'll take the necessary advice as possibly things have changed. HMRC rules allow individuals to claim tax relief for losses in two circumstances a loan has become irrecoverable as determined by the platform & declared as such by them a loan can be treated as irrecoverable if it has entered legal recovery procedures eg. admin or receivership. This can be self determined by the lender. www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-tax-relief-for-irrecoverable-peer-to-peer-loans-final-guidance
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